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This distinction between building mass movements against the two-party system and waging third party campaigns against the two-party system is incomprehensible. I'm not talking about penny ante Communist Vegetarian tickets and similar ritualism, but serious third party bids. Not rituals. Not pointless protest votes. But real efforts aimed at building a mass progressive independent force. Much of what needs to be done to make those movements genuinely independent and genuinely oppositional are the same tasks that have to be performed on behalf of independent political action. And vice versa....the struggle for electoral independence also weakens reliance on the two-party system. I could take this point by point, but it all boils down to whether we are going to politically confront the power structure in electoral politics or not. If you say we aren't going to do that, you're green lighting the usual progressive osmosis back into the mushiness of the Democratic electorate. That's the single most important strategic fight we have to make. We are not only nowhere near ready to do that, but we are nowhere near ready to do that because the same tired old arguments get made every election...not 2004, it's too soon...not 2008, we have to beat the Republicans...not 2012, we have to worry about...what?...the Mayan prophecies? ML ________________________________________________ Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com