Ben Seattle wrote (Feb 4, 2026): > As far as the benefits of increased productive forces, > I neglected to mention that, when the working class > runs everything, an increase of productive forces > will make it possible for workers to have more > disposable (ie: free) time--because the workday > or workweek can be shorter.
Mark replied (April 13) with a question: > Why only an increase in productive forces? > Why not a decrease in some of the overdeveloped > countries in the world? * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * In general, productive forces are a good thing. Productive forces allow humans to create things that people need and want. If the working class wanted to *decrease* productive forces--they could do it because they will run society. But I cannot think of any good reason that the working class would want to decrease productive forces in general. However--some productive forces have bad side effects (ie: externalities such as pollution, or environmental destruction). The working class will retire or replace processes that pollute or harm ecosystems in favor of non-polluting methods of production, and methods of production that respect the value of ecosystems. > We are able to affect the earth's rotation with > our agricultural forces and melt the earth's glaciers > with our industrial forces. The future self-emancipated > working classes may therefore choose to reduce > the productive forces in some countries rather > than increase them. The term "productive forces" include many things--including education and infrastructure. Will people want to reduce education? I doubt it. Rather--they will make education more interesting and useful. Etc. The working class will have the ability, I believe, to develop a clear consensus on ALL important questions related to production--including the questions of WHERE, WHAT, HOW, By WHOM and For WHOM? I believe the working class will create productive forces because productive forces can be used to increase human health and happiness. These are good things, right? Under the rule of capital--productive forces are often used to create misery. When the working class runs society--the productive forces will no longer exist as an alien, hostile force. Technology will be the servant of humanity rather than the master. > I just read a relevant piece on Simon Pirani's > blog on this topic: > > https://peopleandnature.wordpress.com/2025/04/23/technology-and-society-how-not-to-use-karl-marx/ I took a quick look at the article--but did not have time to understand what it was about. I think that one person is criticizing the ideas of another. I did not feel any desire to know more. The article did not appear to represent a good investment of my time. Each day I have a thousand opportunities to waste my time. But I am slowly getting better at saying "No" to nearly all of them. My time is limited and I will invest it in discussion of and support for the idea of a public information platform for activists. History will not look kindly on us if our actions fail to recognize the urgency of putting together some kind of public information backbone or nervous system for activists. If we fail to take action now--we may eventually regret that we did not make hay while the sun shined. > The focus of the essay is a critique > of Malm and Carton's Overshoot. If I can understand your questions--then I can reply with my opinions. In a practical sense, this requires that your questions be relatively concrete, concise and easy to understand. I am not very good at questions that are full of abstract generalities--because these are far more difficult to understand. My reponses to abstract generalities would likely be a disappointment. By the way, Mark--did you ever get as far as chapter 5 of my essay? Hari wrote a review of my essay but it did not appear to me that he had actually read the fifth chapter. All the best, Ben Fate leads the willing, the unwilling are dragged -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Groups.io Links: You receive all messages sent to this group. View/Reply Online (#41457): https://groups.io/g/marxmail/message/41457 Mute This Topic: https://groups.io/mt/117439078/21656 -=-=- POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. #4 Do not exceed five posts a day. -=-=- Group Owner: [email protected] Unsubscribe: https://groups.io/g/marxmail/leave/13617172/21656/1316126222/xyzzy [[email protected]] -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
