Hi y'all - yes I'm coming down on the side of voting my conscience. One thing is certain, if we do not reject these memes that we are constantly bombarded with, and avoid voting "against" a candidate, we will always have a two party system. I would like a more open contest with more choice, so I think that is the decider for me. I probably won't vote for the winning candidate, but hopefully my vote will be counted and serve to influence others to a minute degree. Another overwhelming reason is that Michael doesn't agree!
On Aug 31, 2:18 am, ornamentalmind <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Old Orn:> This, of course is a meme, mostly promulgated by the two > major parties > > > to maintain control. IF people in fact voted their conscience and > > ignored what others say about 'throwing your vote away', the 'major' > > parties would HAVE to be much more responsive to the citizenry. > > Michael: > “Orn, > You are making a hypothetical. If elephants had big enough wings and > strong enough muscles to move them they could fly. As far as I am > concerened Bush stole Florida in 2000. Without Nader it would not > have > been close enough for him to steal. I have not voted in most > presidential elections because I did not find a candidate. in any > party, who I wanted to be president over.There is currently no race > in > Tennessee. I may not vote for President, but will probably vote for > other offices that are up for grabs, including congress. However, I > hope Obama wins, believeing he is the lesser evil by a factor of 100 > or more. If the race becomes close in Tennessee I will vote for him. > That is my conscience.” - Michael > > Yes Michael, I did present a hypothetical…and it was with the > intention of education rather than to reduce linguistics to the > absurd. > > To give a specific example, just prior to the last election I asked > many acquaintances one question, giving them a different hypothetical. > I said: “IF you knew that today all three candidates, Bush, Kerry and > Nader were at 33 1/3 % in the polls, who would you vote for?” > In EVERY CASE with but one exception they said Nader! (The one > exception was a Democratic operative who had come to my door to > convince me to vote for Kerry.) > Yes, I know this is anicdotal and perhaps it is instructive too. > > Your belief about Bush and Florida, as much as I would like to agree > with the gross oversimplification, is but another meme and one voiced > by the opposition. > Of course, your own hypothetical about Nader is yet another meme and a > naïve one at that. It ignores many facts of the situation thus is not > only not true, it misses the point entirely. > IF your conscience, an unfounded notion for one whom I would guess > does not embrace the absolute, resulting in no clear and coherent > ethos, says to not vote, so be it. Your justification of not finding > someone who you would like to be president over (sic.) [me?] > completely ignores the fact that you can write-in anyone, real or > imagined that you want to. At lest this is the case in most states > including Tennessee. One salient example was the “write-in election of > Charlotte Burks to the Tennessee State Senate seat of her late > husband, Tommy Burks, murdered by his only opponent on the ballot.” A > point of law is: “Tennessee – 25 signatures is all that is required as > of 2006 to be put on the ballot for any elected office. A candidate > for President of the United States must put forward a full slate of > candidates who have agreed to serve as electors (11, at least until > the 2010 census)…” > > Further, I can only guess that you say that “There is currently no > race in Tennessee.” , because of polling data? IF so, talk about a > hypothetical!….and what could easily be called a self fulfilling > prophesy! Simple question: Today, IF you were asked by a pollster, > would you say you will vote for Obama? I would guess, based on what > you have said here is that your answer would have to be ‘No’. And, > since there is no place for a clarification such as you WILL vote for > him IF the polls say he has a chance…well, this is almost like Zeno’s > paradox. > > On Aug 30, 10:16 pm, Isparklaria <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > On Aug 30, 6:55 pm, ornamentalmind <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I will vote my conscience, and, as Nader says: "The lesser of two > > evils is still an evil." > > On Aug 30, 6:58 pm, ornamentalmind <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > "... One can exercise their conscience by voting for the lesser > > > evil." - michael > > > > This, of course is a meme, mostly promulgated by the two major parties > > > to maintain control. IF people in fact voted their conscience and > > > ignored what others say about 'throwing your vote away', the 'major' > > > parties would HAVE to be much more responsive to the citizenry. > > > Orn, > > > You are making a hypothetical. If elephants had big enough wings and > > strong enough muscles to move them they could fly. As far as I am > > concerened Bush stole Florida in 2000. Without Nader it would not have > > been close enough for him to steal. I have not voted in most > > presidential elections because I did not find a candidate. in any > > party, who I wanted to be president over.There is currently no race in > > Tennessee. I may not vote for President, but will probably vote for > > other offices that are up for grabs, including congress. However, I > > hope Obama wins, believeing he is the lesser evil by a factor of 100 > > or more. If the race becomes close in Tennessee I will vote for him. > > That is my conscience. > > > On Aug 30, 6:58 pm, ornamentalmind <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > "... One can exercise their conscience by voting for the lesser > > > evil." - michael > > > > This, of course is a meme, mostly promulgated by the two major parties > > > to maintain control. IF people in fact voted their conscience and > > > ignored what others say about 'throwing your vote away', the 'major' > > > parties would HAVE to be much more responsive to the citizenry. > > > > On Aug 30, 1:06 pm, Isparklaria <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > Clog, > > > > > I wouldn't worry too much about who you vote for for president. > > > > McCaine has a huge lead in Tennessee. However, if you goal is to > > > > attain equal rights for Atheists, you might consider helping Obama any > > > > way that you can. The dems have many problems, but they are by far the > > > > lesser of two evils. One can exercise their conscience by voting for > > > > the lesser evil. > > > > > On Aug 30, 2:48 pm, Clogtowner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > Hi y'all - much as I support the intent, I cannot bring myself to send > > > > > money to the Democrats after the disgraceful Obama/McCain church > > > > > interview. I'll keep my money and decide later whether to vote my > > > > > conscience as I should, or vote for the lesser of two evils. > > > > > > On Aug 30, 2:44 pm, stem cell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > This is a link/article found on the Friendly Atheist site by Hemant > > > > > > Mehta. > > > > > > > Elizabeth Dole Attacks Senate Opponent for Meeting with Atheists > > > > > > Posted by Hemant Mehta in General on 08 26th, 2008 | > > > > > > > North Carolina Senator Elizabeth Dole and her communications staff > > > > > > put > > > > > > out a press release today criticizing her Democratic challenger Kay > > > > > > Hagan. > > > > > > > What did Hagan do to deserve the criticism? > > > > > > > She plans to attend a fundraiser hosted by atheists. > > > > > > > On September 15th, Kay Hagan is heading to Boston, Massachusetts to > > > > > > attend a fundraiser for her Senate campaign. What may surprise > > > > > > mainstream North Carolinians is that the fundraiser will be in the > > > > > > home of leading anti religion activists Wendy Kaminer and her lawyer > > > > > > husband Woody Kaplan — who is an advisor to the “Godless Americans > > > > > > Political Action Committee.” > > > > > > > … > > > > > > > Kaminer is also an advisory board member (Woody is the chairman) of > > > > > > The Secular Coalition for America which is “the national lobby for > > > > > > atheists, humanists, freethinkers and other nontheistic Americans > > > > > > with > > > > > > the unique mission of protecting their civil rights.” (Secular > > > > > > Coalition For America, Press Release, 1/16/08) > > > > > > > Kaminer’s husband, Woody Kaplan, is also an advisor to the Godless > > > > > > Americans Political Action Committee which sees itself as a counter- > > > > > > force to religious groups in public policy debates. > > > > > > > So, Republicans hate civil rights? > > > > > > > In fact, the Dole people think protecting rights for all people > > > > > > would > > > > > > horrify North Carolinians. > > > > > > > You know why I say this? > > > > > > > Because Dole’s campaign says it right in the press release: > > > > > > > “Kay Hagan does not represent the values of this state; she is a > > > > > > Trojan Horse for a long list of wacky left-wing outside groups bent > > > > > > on > > > > > > policies that would horrify most North Carolinians if they knew > > > > > > about > > > > > > it,” [Communications Director Dan] McLagan said. “This latest > > > > > > revelation of support from anti-religion activists will not sit well > > > > > > with the 90% of state residents who identify with a specific > > > > > > religious > > > > > > faith.” > > > > > > > Actually, I think most people of faith would be fine if minority > > > > > > groups received equal rights. I don’t know of any atheist groups > > > > > > asking for special rights. We just want to be treated fairly and we > > > > > > don’t want to see religious groups getting privileges the rest of us > > > > > > cannot get. > > > > > > > Next, we’ll see the Dole campaign ripping on Hagan for “associating > > > > > > with known Jews.” > > > > > > > That makes equally as much sense as this press release. > > > > > > > Chris Ray points out that North Carolinians aren’t as devout as the > > > > > > Dole people would have us believe. > > > > > > > According to The Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life, 20% of people > > > > > > in > > > > > > the state attend a worship service “seldom or never.” > > > > > > > Less than half the people in the state attend a weekly service. > > > > > > > The fact that the Dole people are using Hagan’s mere association > > > > > > with > > > > > > atheists as a point of attack on her says a lot more about how > > > > > > desperate and crooked they are than it does anything about Hagan. > > ... > > read more »- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Memphis Freethought Alliance" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/memphisfreethoughtalliance?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
