Oh, as to who I am, I'm just one more atheist on the list! :-)
On Sep 23, 1:11 am, ornamentalmind <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> “Orn. I am not clear. Who are you and what are you putting foreward?”
> - Stem> Even if one posits that the moment of conception
> > is when the "consciousness" (soul) enters the body one must then
> > realize that it is a scientific question. – Stem also
>
> "First I'll agree when science has the tools to address soul or other
> such notions." - orn
>
> Well Stem, I’m not clear about your questions either nor am I meaning
> to be obtuse here either. I’ll guess as to what you are asking and you
> can correct me if I am wrong OK?
> I’m guessing you are asking about my words above that you included in
> your post. That said, most of my words in this thread follow from a
> short aside I made about when consciousness enters the body according
> to some Buddhist sects. I do know that most of the focus here is on
> antitheology and antichristiandom in particular which is fine. I find
> most of such believers troublesome at best. I merely added something I
> learned from some Tibetan Buddhists to the mix because I thought it
> was interesting. This even though the context here was your link and
> comments about embryos and fetuses. Next Taylor brought up soul. The
> underlying and rather tacit topic here is abortion. Yes? At least for
> the fundies.
> Since you asked about me, I’ll comment about this too. Over the years
> I’ve had different positions about abortion. I think I’ve even posted
> to this group about it in the past. Currently, I feel that abortion is
> killing and that it should remain legal. Please do not question what
> appears to be a contradiction here…like do I think that killing should
> be legal. I’m aware of how this appears.
> However, your question addresses my comment about consciousness/soul
> and perhaps science, I guess. Again, I’m retelling what was told to me
> by some Buddhist friends. In a rather simplistic overview and using
> symbols, they see that the eternal continuum – consciousness – enters
> the ‘body’ at the moment of conception. This is when the red gem/drop
> and the white gem/drop unite …it is at that moment that the blue gem/
> drop enters this realm and joins the red and blue. The iconography is
> well known. The existence of this particular cosmology itself can not
> be questioned. If one wishes to say it does not match their own
> view(s) of reality, this is fine and I’d even hasten a guess that most
> Buddhists would agree with the use of such skepticism.
> Continuing…
>
> “I like your thoughts....somewhat. I am not arguing, nor will I get
> into argument about, that science has further to go to reach a science
> of the soul.. Zeus does not throw lighting bolts. It is non-
> existent....like Zeus...god...reincarnation, etc. When I said that it
> is a science question, I was referring to the science of development.
> In other words, Zeus does not throw lighting bolts.” - Slip
>
> I can see you are trying to clarify what you meant and, unfortunately,
> I still don’t grok. I’m ignorant about what you mean by ‘science of
> development’.
> I just googled it and guess you mean the science of child development?
> If so, I think I can guess what you mean. Are you saying that
> consciousness can not enter at the single and/or double cell level
> because the brain has not yet developed? If so, I do understand your
> stance and do not deny your logic.
>
> You continue with some comment about a Greek god. So, I’ll guess that
> your meaning there is that, in your view, science does not nor ever
> will address such things as soul (consciousness/reincarnation?)
> because you don’t believe they exist. If I’m not getting your meaning
> here, I apologize. And, I can only guess that you understood my
> meaning that science does not address these things at all as well as
> my view that it doesn’t because they are not within the purview of
> science which is slightly different from your reason. Either way, we
> both agree that scientific inquiry on the whole does not address such
> things today. . . I hope!
>
> I almost hesitated to go into it this much because of my not being
> clear about what you were asking. I hope that at the very least I
> haven’t confused things further.
>
> On Sep 22, 9:12 pm, stem cell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Orn. I am not clear. Who are you and what are you putting
> > foreward?
>
> > > Even if one posits that the moment of conception
> > > is when the "consciousness" (soul) enters the body one must then
> > > realize that it is a scientific question.
>
> > "First I'll agree when science has the tools to address soul or other
> > such notions."
>
> > I like your thoughts....somewhat. I am not arguing, nor will I get
> > into argument about, that science has further to go to reach a science
> > of the soul.. Zeus does not throw lighting bolts. It is non-
> > existent....like Zeus...god...reincarnation, etc.
>
> > When I said that it is a science question, I was referring to the
> > science of development. In other words, Zeus does not throw lighting
> > bolts.
>
> > On Sep 22, 5:34 pm, ornamentalmind <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > > Oh, you are not interested in such imaginary things as the
> > > 'irrational', are you? (…other than as a means to hone debate
> > > techniques.) If I misread you, please advise.
> > > In general, I don't discuss things that specific people reject with
> > > them. An analogy would be to attempt a serious debate with a
> > > fundamentalist Christian about the true age of the earth. Most times
> > > the result is just further entrenchment into an already crystalized
> > > belief system.
>
> > > On Sep 22, 3:28 pm, Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > > > <<Yes, these are all common memes of the day and no new news at all.
>
> > > > And dodges a defense of the irrationality. (as usual)- Hide quoted
> > > > text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
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