Many gay couples feel the symbolic nature of the word "marriage" would be
validating.  I think many gay couples wouldn't care what you call their
relationships except that marriage has become a symbol of acceptance and
legitimacy for the gay community.  If by calling gay unions "marriages" it
soothes the hearts and minds of millions of people all over the world, I'm
for it.  

 

If calling gay unions "marriages"  helps to heal the thousands of years of
cruelty, fear, and ignorance that have been heaped on gays, I'm for it.  

 

Liz

 

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Clogtowner
Sent: Monday, October 13, 2008 9:01 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [skeptics-145] My Philosophy

 

Hi y'all - I agree. Marriage is simply a contract which gives some security
and legality to a relationship. It's traditional (western) purpose has been
to create an environment for reproduction and nurture. I don't say that this
is the only method, but it is one I like and has worked for me. A gay
relationship doesn't have the purpose of reproduction therefore it should
have a different name. By all means give legal lifetime partnership rights
to it.
Here's an analogy to illustrate my point. Two machines produce electrictiy.
One produces direct current and is called a generator. One produces
alternating current and is called an alternator. The main purpose is very
similar but with one difference hence the different name. I say no more than
that.
Please spank me.

S.
Imbibo ergo sum.




  _____  


From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [skeptics-145] My Philosophy
Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2008 23:20:59 -0400



Quickly, marriage didn't evolve in the way of biological evolution.  Humans
have common feelings and urges, but marriage is defined in so many different
ways cross culturally, that you can't define it as needing to be between a
man and a woman or a man and a man, etc.  Marriage is not even necessary in
all cultures.  There are some that have no marriage whatsoever and that
lifestyle was a successful adaptation.

 

  Marriage is made of culturally arbitrary rules when it does exist, and
there is no reason why gay marriages would not necessarily turn out to be
the next successful cultural adaptation.  I'm not saying it's likely, but as
with biological evolution, it is nearly impossible to determine what kind of
cultural adaptation will prove to be the most successful.

 

Liz

 

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Clogtowner
Sent: Sunday, October 12, 2008 2:23 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [skeptics-145] My Philosophy

 

Hi y'all - I'll reply to the Buddhism post when I've had the time to digest
it.
On the question of gay marriage, for me it is simply a question of semantics
and not separate but equal. I believe that natural evolution over milleniae
has arrived at the present biologically efficient method of reproduction and
nurture. We call it marriage and that's why I married. Admittedly some
couples marry with no desire or even ability to reproduce - they should have
the right to a civil union or a marriage.
I believe a civil union is the right method of lifetime partnership for gays
as it doesn't have the same purpose as marriage, and is therefore different.
It should have all the rights granted to a marriage except those pertaining
to childbirth. 
For me the jury is still out on gays creating families by adopting children
- I need far more information before I can decide whether children in gay
families grow up to be well balanced adults in the same proportions as the
rest of the community. If it turns out that they do, then I may well change
my view. 
Jason has quoted one paper on the subject but I'm afraid that is not enough.

Some of my best friends have been, and are, gay. I have never met an adopted
child with a gay family upbringing.
Obviously, if gay marriage becomes the prime choice, humanity is doomed
without artificial evolution.


S.
Imbibo ergo sum.



  _____  


From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [skeptics-145] My Philosophy
Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2008 12:10:20 -0400

Hi Steve, 

     While it is biologically true that gay couples cannot procreate, many
straight couples have also found they are unable to do so.  Since marriage
is a contract of sorts with religious overtones, it seems to me that it
should be enforced and allowed without prejudice.  Civil Unions, while
seeming to provide all the contractual benefits of marriage, still creates a
kind of lesser contract, similar I think to the so-called "separate but
equal" schools during segregation.  It is only when the prejudicial aspects
of that system we removed that the underlying prejudice could be seen.  The
schools were separate, but they were never equal.  The idea of civil unions
promotes the desire of those who wish to stigmatize homosexuality- for it to
remain separate from a "normal" lifestyle. While it is preferable to gay
couples having no rights, it's like giving someone partial rights.  I say
let people who wish to marry, regardless of the sexual orientation, do so.
As long as I was separated from black people, I could never really know them
or empathize with them.  Since I was married to a black woman for 24 years
and have always had black friends, I no longer think of them with the
prejudice I was brought up with.  It seems to me that those who oppose gay
marriage probably have few gay acquaintances or friends and thus do not
relate to them in an empathetic manner.  

 

Once restrictions on gay marriage are removed, society doesn't fall apart.
That's been proven time and again.

 

Rick S

 

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Clogtowner
Sent: Sunday, October 12, 2008 10:21 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [skeptics-145] My Philosophy

 

Hi y'all - this comes close to my philosophy - anyone agree, or want to kick
the crap out of me?
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/12/nyregion/12marriage.html?em
S.
Imbibo ergo sum.

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