Clog, even my most OCD gay friend don't share your social
concerns! :-)

On Oct 14, 3:41 pm, Clogtowner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi y'all - it is important for me to know how many males and females
> I've invited for dinner and I don't like making social gaffts by
> asking strangers what their preferences are. For instance, if I invite
> Stem Cell to dinner it is necessary to ensure that I have at least 4
> females sitting near him and that he is seated very close to the gents
> bathroom and bar. Knowledge of guest relationships would be vital at
> our swinger parties.
> It seems that most disagree with me here in using the term marriage.
> What's wrong with life partner? Where's the extra paperwork - just a
> different contract with similar rights? Let's take it to it's logical
> conclusion - if two males get married how do they introduce each
> other? Hi, this is my wife, or hi, this is my partner? If you use the
> word partner, aren't you making your choice in terminology?
>
> On Oct 14, 4:55 pm, SmuglyDismissed <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Sorry to just barge into this thread but...
>
> > I don't see how the legal term for it has anything to do with how
> > people describe it in a socal context. If/when this is legal in my
> > state of residence (and if I decide to partake), I will likely use the
> > terms 'married' and 'husband' in spite of the official legal
> > definition. If someone wants to waste the energy to point out that
> > it's not technically the same (In a legal sense or using their own
> > subjective definition of what marrage means to them), then that's
> > their prerogative.
>
> > Honestly though, if the term marrage applies to all unions, how often
> > will things be unclear? Unless you know very little about the person
> > and/or they are intentionally trying to make things confusing,
> > miscommunication seems very unlikely. Most generic terms for a spouse
> > that I would use in a conversation are gendered...
>
> > Isn't it significantly more complicated from a legal standpoint to
> > maintain two seperate institutions with exactly the same legal
> > function as opposed to using a single nstitution. The fact that one
> > can have children with genetic material from both parents is not
> > important as far as the law is considered. Wouldn't a seperate
> > institution be more vulnerable to legal challenge? (And paperwork! How
> > many more forms would agencies need to make?)
>
> > Just because I'm curious, in what sort of situations would a mistake
> > like this be an issue anyway? Meeting a couple for dinner and finding
> > out that they are gay dosen't exactly ruin the evening... If special
> > accomodations need to be made based on the precise numbers of males
> > and females that will be attending an event or if the presense of a
> > gay couple will be an issue, it's probably better to just ask outright
> > rather than making assumptions.
>
> > In most situations, at worst, you are going to have an "Oh, I thought
> > he was female" moment the first time you meet someone... that dosen't
> > seem very significant.
>
> > That being said, I'll have to remember to say "I'm bringing the person
> > I'm currently dating" or "The person I married is coming with me" when
> > I make plans with new people, just to keep 'em guessing. (The
> > situation would be even better if he had a gender neutral name.)
>
> > On Oct 14, 2:09 pm, Clogtowner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > > Hi y'all - the legal acceptance of same sex unions is a new phenomenon
> > > in this country therefore it should be suitably named - there is no
> > > more to my argument than that.
> > > Let's see if I can spell it out more clearly: If I buy some real
> > > estate the heading on the contract is "Contract for the sale of real
> > > estate." If I take out a loan the heading is "Contract for a loan
> > > agreement." The traditional marriage certificate is entitled
> > > "Certificate of Marriage." As we have a new situation, which has not
> > > legally been recognised before, what is wrong with choosing a suitable
> > > name to identify it? Marriage won't do as I have indicated earlier.
> > > What does everyone have against a new name? The very least that would
> > > be achieved is that when I call someone and ask them to dinner, I
> > > would know if they are bringing someone of the same sex or opposite,
> > > and I can make preparations accordingly. In this instance, it is
> > > simply a matter of etiquette.
>
> > > On Oct 14, 12:03 pm, ornamentalmind <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > > > "This being the case, there is no harm in calling a new phenomenon by
> > > > a new name to remove any confusion." - clog
>
> > > > Of course, seen from a provincial point of view, it is ‘a new
> > > > phenomenon’. In the larger view of all of humanity, it is not. So,
> > > > there is no ‘harm’ in attempting to accept that the word ‘marriage’
> > > > can have different meanings, which it has ALWAYS had and will continue
> > > > to have.
>
> > > > On Oct 14, 8:42 am, Clogtowner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > > > > Hi y'all - I agree that language changes over time. I remember one of
> > > > > my favorite songs as a youth containing the phrase "shall I be blamed
> > > > > if god has made me gay." Of course, it referred to a happy person and
> > > > > a womanizer.
> > > > > This being the case, there is no harm in calling a new phenomenon by a
> > > > > new name to remove any confusion.
>
> > > > > On Oct 14, 9:58 am, Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > > > > > <<Therefore, a different purpose requires a different name. Q.E.D. 
> > > > > > >>
>
> > > > > > No, it doesn't.  The meaning of words can change and this one will.
> > > > > > Just like the meaning of the word "gay" changed to a new purpose.- 
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