I just thought about your response.  I'm not suggesting that it's unfair and
mean that men aren't sexually attracted to older women.  I'm just saying
that a woman should be recognized for having value after she has lost
physical attractiveness.  

Intellectually, I think men realize that this should be the case, but I have
seen firsthand how quick men are to dole out hugs and affection to an
"attractive" woman and an older woman not even be acknowledged.  The guy
doesn't have to fake attraction or French kiss the old lady, but some token
of respect should be given to the lady!  

And what about this opening doors for ladies bit!?  I noticed that when I
was pregnant, men stopped opening doors for me.  So, at the times when I
have or eventually will need assistance (when I get old) the guys are
letting the door slam in my face, I assume because there is no perceived
(consciously or otherwise) potential nookie exchange.

Having had these experiences (of visibility and invisibility), I can easily
imagine how my world is going to change over time. I need to find a gimmick
for when I get old, so I will still be a recognizable individual.  I was
toting with the idea of being the town's crazy cat woman, but the smell
would get on my nerves, so I'm thinking of only having a few cats, letting
my hair grow out and being the crazy, mysterious witch lady that lives on
the hill and is rumored to cavort with the devil.

liz


-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jason
(Memphis)
Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 1:54 PM
To: Memphis Freethought Alliance
Subject: Re: I like this picture. I found it while looking for other
pictures


Liz,

I agree.  Attractive women get way, way too much attention.  How do me
make society give attractive women less attention so ugly women get
more or as much attention especially from men?

Jason

On Nov 19, 7:13 am, "Liz Purkrabek" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> It's not the same thing at all.  Being ignored because you belong to a big
> family or disinterested parents is not the same issue as being ignored
> incrementally  based on physical attractiveness or perceived value to
> society as a whole.
>
> liz
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected]
>
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jason
> (Memphis)
> Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 10:57 PM
> To: Memphis Freethought Alliance
> Subject: Re: I like this picture. I found it while looking for other
> pictures
>
> Aren't kids in the "invisibility syndrome" category too?   I know
> quite a few kids that are essentially ignored especially with big
> families.  It is starting to be less of an issue because many couples
> (or singles) aren't having as many children so their one or two
> children get lots and lots of attention.
>
> On Nov 18, 9:09 pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > I like old chicks.
>
> > J.
>
> > “I  do agree with Liz about the "invisibility syndrome". But, isn't it
> > cultural  to the western world?” – CB
>
> > One can generalize about any thought. I  find that age alone can
> > produce a type of ‘invisibility’ for some people.  When I was a kid, I
> > seldom knew how to relate to the old folks let alone  found them easy
> > to get to know. Ignoring them was the easiest defense  mechanism. . .
> > as ignorant as avoidance can be in the long  run.
>
> > On Nov 18, 7:17 am, CrossBow  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:> One theory
> is that women go  through menopause in order to dump the hormones
> > > and switch the ability  to produce for focus on caretaking of
> grandchildren.
> > > Sounds like  evolution wants us to be social servants and makes use of
> us to
> > >  further survival that way...
>
> > > I do agree with Liz about the  "invisibility syndrome".  But, isn't it
> > > cultural to the western  world?
>
> > > I have mixed feelings about losing what beauty I have  had.  Sometimes
> it is
> > > a relief not to maintain it.  Nice to  be needed for something
> approaching
> > > wisdom instead of my  bosom:)
>
> > > On Mon, Nov 17, 2008 at 4:41 PM, ornamentalmind  
>
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:
>
> > >  > "Because of the loss of status I feel as I age..." - Liz
>
> > >  > Thanks for the stream Liz! And, this quote of yours is what I see
 as
> > > > the 'crime' of our culture. Historically, age has represented
 wisdom,
> > > > the opposite of a loss of status. And, as I see it, door  opening,
as
> > > > much as I was programmed to do it and still do on  occasion, has not
> > > > been continued as a 'social grace' in many  pockets of our culture
> and/
> > > > or has become a curiosity due to the  notion of being politically
> > > > correct.
>
> > > > On Nov  17, 1:28 pm, "Liz Purkrabek" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >  > > Although I agree that beauty can be more than skin deep, I've
>  always
> > > > thought
> > > > > men were likely to respond first  to positive visual stimulation.
>  If,
> > > > after
> > > > >  the attention was caught, then other factors like personality or
> > > >  > intelligence entered into the picture.  I've thought about just
>  this
> > > > subject
> > > > > more and more as I get older and  realize that with every year
that
> > > > passes,
> > > > > fewer  and fewer men stop to open doors for me.  Where once even
the
> > >  > > teenagers did so, now just the men about my age and older do.  I
> > imagine
> > > > at
> > > > > some point that the few men  who respond to me in such a fashion
> will be
> > > > > doing so out of  pity when I am old and unable to open the door
> myself.
>
> > > >  >   Because of the loss of status I feel as I age (and also for
>  other
> > > > > reasons), I am educating myself and developing myself  in ways
that
> have
> > > > > little to nothing to do with the way I  look.  I don't want to be
> caught
> > > > > unprepared when at  last the body completely gives and the face
> sags.
>
> > > > > I  am already starting to see wrinkles that don't go away when I
> stop
> > >  > > smiling, and I never feared wrinkles until I started seeing them.
>  I
> > > > think
> > > > > that to become unattractive is  much more problematic or even
> > devastating
> > > > > because it seems  as though women  become invisible as they lose
> their
> > > > >  beauty.
>
> > > > > This was sort of a rambling email.  Sort of stream of
> consciousness...
>
> > > > >  liz
>
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > >  From: [email protected]
>
> > > > >  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
> > > >  > ornamentalmind
> > > > > Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 12:29  PM
> > > > > To: Memphis Freethought Alliance
> > > > >  Subject: Re: I like this picture. I found it while looking for
> other
> > >  > > pictures
>
> > > > > What is obvious to me, perhaps  because of my gender, is that in
the
> > > > > current US culture, the  omnipresence of beauty industry
advertising
> > > > > along with  programs on corporate tv and radio have been fairly
> > > > >  successful in producing a trance like state within too many
 women.
>
> > > > > The 'avarousness' found at the heart of  consumerism has been
quite
> > > > > successful in supplanting a clear  view of reality within the
female
> > > > > brain with one of being  born in the 'original sin' of having a
> > > > > lack...lack of  beauty, lack of the right shape, color, height,
> length
> > > > >  nails, texture of skin etc.
>
> > > > > My entire life, while I  do know how my eye appreciates specific
> shapes
> > > > > and colors, I  find those with inner beauty to be in fact
beautiful
> > > > > when it  comes to human beings. Anyone who has this pure radiance
is
> > > > >  immediately apprehended as being beautiful.
>
> > > > > Those  who do not know this innate and true beauty appear to be
sad
> and
> > > >  > have a sad life.
>
> > > > > On Nov 17, 8:39 am, CrossBow  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > > > Google and image  Tiziano Vicellio
>
> > > > > > On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 9:49  PM, Liz Purkrabek
> > > > >  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:
>
> > > > > > > I'm  not familiar with his works, but I will definitely do a
> Google
> > > >  > search
> > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > see  what else he has to offer.
>
> > > > > > >  liz
>
> > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > >  > > > > From: [email protected]
> > >  > > > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf
> Of
> > > > > > >  ornamentalmind
> > > > >  > > Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 8:36 PM
> > > > > > >  To: Memphis Freethought Alliance
> > > > > > > Subject: Re: I  like this picture. I found it while looking
for
> > other
> > > > > >  > pictures
>
> > > > > > > Liz, I've long been a big  fan of Sandro Botticelli!!!
>
> > > > > > > On Nov 15,  11:32 am, "Liz Purkrabek" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > wrote:
> > > >  > > > > See, ladies could be born beautiful back then.  Now  it
takes
> so
> > > > much
> > > > > work
> > > > > >  > > and/or surgery...
>
> > > > > > > >  LIz
>
> > > > > > > > -----Original  Message-----
> > > > > > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> > > > > >  > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf  
> > Of
> > > > BC
> > > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, November  15, 2008 1:30 PM
> > > > > > > > To: Memphis Freethought  Alliance
> > > > > > > > Subject: Re: I like this picture. I  found it while looking
> for
> > > > other
> > > > > > > >  pictures
>
> > > > > > > > On Nov 15, 8:33 am, "Liz  Purkrabek"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >  > > > > > [The+Wave.jpg]
>
> > > > > > >  > That is a nice pic; but she could stand to lose about a
> 20-spot.
> > >  > > > > > -BC-- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > >  > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > >  > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > > -  Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text  -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -


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