Tom,
you're going back farther than anything i was talking about,... i
thought we were talking about something significantly more "modern"! ;-)
FWIW, none of the J**ps in question were anything but the straight 6
4.0 Liters, and almost all of them were the allegedly bulletproof AW4
trannys... but i got several of those trannys last year alone... and 2
of those had no-go components failures repaired before they were
replaced completely due to other issues... the most recent ChryCo
minivan i saw go away was also because of transmission problems, not
engine issues.
the pulling problem i was speaking of was related to suspension
issues; not brakes,... (that's why i said "alignment".) this was on the
same vehicle that didn't even have its battery bolted down when it was
delivered new!
if it makes you feel any bester, it's not just ChryCo; my sister
recently returned her "Ford Tough®" pickup under the California Lemon
Law... maybe my family's funny that way, but we expect stuff to work! ;-)
looking at truly more modern data, i find it appalling that the
industry standard for Initial Quality last year is still over 120
defects per 100 vehicles. (the best American vehicle was only 7th, and
there were only 2 Americans in the Top Ten. Chrysler was not one of them.)
even the best manufacturer in last years Initial Quality survey had
'only' 91 defects per 100 vehicles. if any of us were to have a better
performance than that and were faulty, say, even *just* 80% of the time,
we wouldn't be able to keep a job!
you may have been very lucky with your last 3 vehicles, but given
the odds, i find it statistically unlikely you've had "zero defects";
perhaps you're much more accepting, or you just haven't noticed yet. ;-)
cheers!
e
Tom Hargrave wrote:
> Jeeps and minivans had serious issues in the late 80's and early 90's.
>
> The late 80's V6 minivans had engine trouble - the Mitsu engine had
> incorrect valve train geometry which put sideways pressure on the valves &
> wore the guides egg shaped well before 100,000 miles, causing a severe
> smoking issue without a lot of oil consumption.
>
> The late 80's & early 90's minivans had serious transmission troubles and
> most would not go 100,000 miles. Chrysler also had the same troubles with
> the replacement transmissions until they finally worked out the issues they
> were having with the transmission controllers. These were Chrysler's first
> venture into computer controlled transmissions. Also, my Wife actually
> worked on the transmission controller line during the redesign & a couple of
> friends of mine were involved with software.
>
> Speaking of software, if you knew someone in the department you could get a
> engine control computer programmed with just about any ignition advance
> curve, turbo boost & fuel injection profile you wanted. I owned a 1989
> Lebaron Coupe GTC with a 2.2 liter Turbo II engine at the time. The engine
> was rated at 174 HP - mine was turning 224 HP (92 octane premium fuel only).
> The original turbo II engine would spike at 15 PSI boost & then drop to 12
> PSI. Mine would go to 15 PSI boost & stay there.
>
> The late 80's & early 90's Jeep had wiring harness issues plus the 2.2 liter
> 4 cylinder engine would rarely carry the jeep past 1000,000 miles. On the
> other hand, the straight 6 will go many 100,000 miles.
>
> The late 90's Jeeps had brake caliper issues. The calipers would bind &
> cause the pulling issues you mentioned. Chrysler replaced these under
> warranty. And by the way, the caliper issue was a supplier issue, not a
> Chrysler workmanship issue. The Chrysler employees just bolted them on. The
> calipers were manufactured by ATE or Bendix - the same companies who
> supplied calipers to Mercedes. No wonder the left, front caliper on my
> 300SDL binds........
>
> Thanks,
> Tom Hargrave
> www.kegkits.com
> 256-656-1924
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On Behalf Of ernest breakfield
> Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2007 12:16 AM
> To: Mercedes Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] MB "quality" vs the rest
>
> tom,
>
> you *are* joking, aren't you? how far back do you consider "modern"?
> the lists of issues i know of with J**ps of my own and friends J**ps
> and ChryCo minivans would fill pages; fortunately, none of the J**ps
> were bought as sole daily drivers (but rather to use for what J**ps can
> be built to do), with the expectations that they would need to be
> 'sorted out'.
> some of them were as simple as door handles being fastened poorly
> enough that lady passengers were able to pull them off, others were
> alignment issues serious enough to cause a vehicle to dive into the
> oncoming lane under heavy braking. (and you don't want to hear about how
> many transmissions i went through under warranty before i finally got
> one that seems to be holding together, though it still doesn't shift as
> well as the original did before it started to hemorrhage ATF...)
>
>
> cheers!
> e
>
>
> Tom Hargrave wrote:
>
>> Peter,
>>
>> I agree that this is serious & should not have happened but I also would
>>
> say
>
>> that it's not a "horrific build quality" issue that others accuse American
>> car manufacturers of.
>>
>> And for the record, our last three new Chrysler products, a Dodge truck
>>
> and
>
>> two Jeeps have had zero manufacturing defects & the newest of the here is
>> now a little over one year old! But our youngest Son's new Honda also had
>>
> no
>
>> defects.
>>
>> Except for the occasional reported Quality issue, modern cars are
>>
> amazingly
>
>> defect free. Anyone reporting "horrific build quality" issues against any
>> major auto manufacturer, particularly an American manufacturer, is
>> delivering a huge load of horse sh*t!!!!!
>>
>> That's why I challenged Curt to "go to a Ford, GM and Chrysler dealer and
>> find any new car build quality issues & then report them, in detail, to
>>
> this
>
>> list!". He won't be able to.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Tom Hargrave
>> www.kegkits.com
>> 256-656-1924
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> On Behalf Of Peter Frederick
>> Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2007 10:19 PM
>> To: Mercedes Discussion List
>> Subject: Re: [MBZ] MB "quality" vs the rest
>>
>> GPS antenna grommet that didn't seal on a brand new Buick Lacrosse,
>> dripped water all over the interior.
>>
>> Qualifies as build quality issue to me, bad design and known to be so,
>> but shipped anyway for the dealer to fix when the customer complained.
>>
>> Peter
>
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