Life is all about actions and priorities...
On Sat, 17 Feb 2001, Tim Seifert wrote:
> _Replying to a message_
>
> By: Flavio Stanchina <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On: Saturday, February 17, 2001, 1:04:24 AM
> Re: [Miami] Re: Miami(DX) Time bug?
>
>
> Hi Flavio,
>
> >> This, and some of the SSL authentication capabilities that Fred discussed
> >> previously, are the kinds of things that Holgar could do for Miami if he
> >> wanted to continue making updates. That is not to say he is not, but
> >> given his continued absence from this mailing list, and the reported
> >> rebuff he has given to people who tried to contact him about Miami via
> >> the REBOL mailing, one has to wonder.
>
> I understand not wanting to have to explain to REBOL why he was receiving
> non-REBOL mail. Particularly if you're employed as a programmer, and
> you're receiving mail about some other programming job it could be
> embarrassing to say the least. Even cost a person their job. I seem to
> recall his message about this saying something similar.
>
I doubt that his employers were unaware of his involvement with his line
of Amiga products, and I would venture to guess, as a hiring manager in
the IT field, that Holgar's experience in releasing Amiga products
probably played an important role in his hiring.
That said, your point is well taken. My point is simply that Holgar has
decided, for whatever reasons, and based on whatever priorities he has
set, NOT to respond to respond to postings on this mailing list nor, based
on what I have read here, to e-mail messages sent to him directly on
questions concerning Miami.
> Although "that" doesn't excuse not replying to your mail that's been sent
> to the right place, but having more mail than you could deal with, would
> excuse any tardiness in replying. I know what it's like to actually
> "read" through 1000 messages in a hurry. The brain hurts. If I were to
> guess about a reason for ignoring all Miami mail, I'd guess he's received
> some mail that's so rude he's had enough (I can easily imagine that
> happening).
>
That is the main point - maybe he has had enough, and despite the
information on his website, he has decided not to further support his
Amiga products. Only Holgar can answer that. One could argue that his
continued silence is proof of that. To be fair though, perhaps his
silence indicates just the opposite. Certainly, if I wanted to be rid of
a product and a mailing list I am no longer interested in, I quick message
to the list to "bugger off" and/or termination of the list would send a
quick message *grins*.
> There's no "obligation" for an author to supply personal support, anyway
> (it's rare for any program). The docs that come with Miami do direct you
> to the support lists. And, you'll find that the usual disclaimers apply,
> about usage being at your own risk, etc. So, he doesn't "have" to respond
> to "it won't work" messages, etc.
>
I respectfully disagree. In all cases, I believe there is a moral
obligation for a software publisher, whether it is one person or a huge
company, to support their products. In many cases, the problems that one
person encounters but not another are the user's fault, but there have
been instances (one only need look at the history list for Miami) to
determine where some problems with Miami were due to a coding bug in the
product. How does a end user necessarily fix a coding bug? Yes, in some
cases, there are work arounds, but not in all cases.
Whether a publisher has a LEGAL obligation to fix problems is not so
clear. Trends in legislation would suggest not. However, the one
exception I would make is security. If a publisher is aware that there is
a way to breach the software and compromise data that is represented as
being secure, I believe the publisher has a legal obligation to fix it, if
he is aware that such a breach exists. I think other companies think so
or else they (like Microsoft) would not keep a bank of programmers to fix
them and release them for free. Standard disclaimer applies here - I am
not an attorney, so do not rely on my views as legal advice.
> It's certainly a user's fault if they lose their registration details, so
> no author "has" to provide that sort of support (which is the other common
> complain we hear about). Losing $50 on having to re-register, might teach
> some people to make back-ups; but I guess it won't, for all.
>
We have discussed this before, and I think have come to that consensus.
However, I merely point out that in the past, Holgar did this too, even if
he had no obligation to do so. Again choices - he chose to do it before,
and he has chosen not to do it now.
> I dare say that the few sales he might make, from personal contact,
> probably don't amount to /that/ much, that a person might feel inclined to
> make themselves available in that manner. Although, I can't see it being
> all too much effort to receive a cheque in the post, and send a disk or
> registration code key back. But many authors refuse to do such things.
> Though, you'd expect him to want to keep the automatic systems (credit
> card purchases over the net, etc.), still running. He did fix up the
> mailing list, after it failed.
>
Well, once the system is up and running, the marginal cost of issuing new
licenses is small compared to the income derived from issuing new licenses
*grins*. And again, the fact that he fixed the mailing list would tend to
indicate he has not completely abandoned his Amiga products.
> > Yesterday I was browsing www.jschoenfeld.com (Individual Computers in
> > Germany, makers of the X-Surf Ethernet board) and noticed interesting
> > news from Jan 24, 2001: Jens has received a stock of registered MiamiDx
> > packages to be bundled with the X-Surf. If we want to continue
> > speculating about Holger based on such signs, this clearly means that
> > he's alive and still wants to make money from MiamiDx. If he were like
> > me, being short on time he would give priority to development and, as we
> > see here, getting the product to the market rather than answering email.
> > Excuse him if he does it only for the money (if that was going to be
> > anyone's objection).
>
I looked at the website, and all it says (under the news link) is that
they will bundle MiamiDX licenses with X-Surf. There is nothing there
(and nothing on globalnordic's website, BTW) indicating there is anything
new in the MiamiDX version with X-Surf. Certainly, if one has a
functional product and someone comes to a publisher and asks to buy a
number of licenses, it is hard to see how that publisher would say no
*grins*. Again, it says nothing - pro or con - about what future support
or development will be provided for the product. In fact, depending on
how Holgar's contract with JSchoenfeld is written, support for MiamiDX
bundled with X-Surf may now be JSchoenfeld's responsibility. That is not
uncommon with bundled software.
<comments on being buried in sofware writing, Holgar's withdraw, and
reasons why one might want to drop it deleted. My previous comments
already address this.>
<some previous comments on contact through the REBOL mailing list
deleted.>
> We've seen the post that was sent here explaining that he didn't want
> mails there, and why. Oddly enough, he didn't post it himself, but had it
> relayed here (by someone else). He did stick a post about it on his web
> site, which seems (to me) more effort than would be required to post it
> here, too.
>
That is what I find curious. Relayed to this mailing list through a third
party. Posted on his website. I just went and looked on Nordicglobal,
and did not see it there, although I was not particularly looking for it.
It is hard to know what to think here. When I started this thread, my
point was there are areas that Holgar could certainly improve
Miami/MiamiDX in, and nothing seems to be happening with regard to updated
versions. Are they functional products? Absolutely. Do they still have
some problems? Definitely, as I and others have posted here. Is there
room for improvements in the products, and would we like updates to the
sofware? I think most of us would say yes.
I do not profess to be able to write products like Miami and MiamiDX, and
since Holgar created them, he has absolute rights to their distribution
and maintenance, which is why we look to him for support. However, at the
risk of starting yet a further controversy, I wish Holgar would state his
future plans for Miami/MiamiDX. If he has decided that he will not further
develop or support them, I wish that he would say so, and take steps
(either by selling the source code or by releasing it under a GPL) to
allow someone else to do so. And I will restate that I said "wish" here,
because he is under no obligation to do so.
jeh
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> --
> Bye,
> Tim.
>
> http://www.picknowl.com.au/homepages/Tim_Seifert/
> mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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