Yes. Agree.
However, on the UI would like to default the date to a meeting date to make
data entry easier.
On Fri, May 3, 2013 at 6:18 PM, AMIT JAIN <amitjain....@gmail.com> wrote:
> Right
>
>
>
> On Fri, May 3, 2013 at 6:14 PM, Ashok <as...@confluxtechnologies.com>wrote:
>
>> Binny,
>>
>> I can see there are two parts for JLG loans.
>>
>> 1. Users do not want to tie disbursement date with meeting date and
>> want interest calculation should start from the date of actual
>> disbursement.
>> 2. Loan repayment should follow the meeting dates i.e. on center/
>> group meeting dates.
>>
>> If my understanding is correct then we can use meeting dates only for
>> loan repayment schedule generation.
>>
>>
>> Regards
>> Ashok
>>
>> On Fri, May 3, 2013 at 5:47 PM, Keith Woodlock
>> <keithwoodl...@gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>> Binny,
>>>
>>> Yes. correct. If you downloaded the source or used the demo app on
>>> https://demo.openmf.org you will see that when you create a loan for a
>>> client you can choose any disbursement date you like and repayment schedule
>>> is created according to that (the norm)
>>>
>>> In the center/group context scenario, Ashok is creating UI that uses
>>> 'meeting' concept so that dates align with the meeting frequency of the
>>> center. So the repayment schedule frequency matches center meeting
>>> frequency.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, May 3, 2013 at 1:09 PM, Binny Gopinath <binny.gopin...@gmail.com
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>> Ashok,
>>>>
>>>> This is the input from GK:
>>>>
>>>> In case of many products & perhaps most group loans, we may continue to
>>>> disburse on meeting date, but the process is inflexible today as we do not
>>>> have any other choice. This should be something that can be defined at
>>>> administrative level. On the system, the interest calculation etc
>>>> should be from actual disbursement date and not necessarily from the
>>>> meeting date.
>>>>
>>>> We could avoid hardcoding the business rule on the platform. I assume
>>>> what you are saying is that the disbursement date will be defaulted to the
>>>> meeting date on UI only. And user can modify it? This will make data entry
>>>> easier for the majority of loans for organizations like GK.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks
>>>> Binny
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, May 3, 2013 at 5:17 PM, Ashok <as...@confluxtechnologies.com>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> b) Will it be possible to disburse 2 loans products of 2 different
>>>>> disbursement/repayment frequencies to a customer who belongs to a group?
>>>>> For ex. customer has a JLG loan which is disbursed and re-paid at
>>>>> meetings and there is an Emergency loan which is disbursed and repaid
>>>>> outside of the group meetings.
>>>>>
>>>>> >> At API level we have given a flexibility where in one center/group
>>>>> can have more than one meeting calendar associated to it. If the second
>>>>> loan wants to follow a different disbursement/ repayment frequency then
>>>>> they can choose appropriate meeting calendar to meet their requirements.
>>>>>
>>>>> We are trying not to tie meeting calendar to JLG loans, if a meeting
>>>>> calendar is attached to a loan (this can be very much handled in UI)
>>>>> then only meeting calendar validations will come in place.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> regards
>>>>> Ashok
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, May 3, 2013 at 4:47 PM, Keith Woodlock <
>>>>> keithwoodl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Binny,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> At the platform level we are going to support maximum flexibility so
>>>>>> we havent built in contraints like the disbursement one mentioned above
>>>>>> exactly for the reasons you outlined - its not clear to me if GK really
>>>>>> want this also (but they might). Allowing the client app built on top of
>>>>>> the platform to bake in contraints is a very much the strategy an
>>>>>> application developer would take - we at platform level cant be all
>>>>>> things
>>>>>> to all people - workflow and buisiness process rules that are not
>>>>>> industry
>>>>>> norms would be put in at the app level so users of the app dont have to
>>>>>> worry about these things.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So we wont be putting in any hard coded business rules like
>>>>>> disbursement date must match meeting date unless its clearly an industry
>>>>>> norm (which its not) and I would fight against putting in configuration
>>>>>> everywhere to support these types of scenarios as well. If GK or another
>>>>>> MFI care enough about this rule (its central to their process) they can
>>>>>> tweak the UI to support it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> regards,
>>>>>> Keith.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, May 3, 2013 at 12:08 PM, Binny Gopinath <
>>>>>> binny.gopin...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ashok, Keith,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I would suggest to keep this configurable at the product level. When
>>>>>>> defining the loan product, we have a flag that states whether the loan
>>>>>>> disbursement should coincide with the meeting date or not. Also, if we
>>>>>>> implement the validation in the UI, then there is the risk of different
>>>>>>> front-ends (web, mobile etc.) dealing with this differently. So
>>>>>>> shouldn't
>>>>>>> this check be done on the API side?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If we tie the disbursement date to meeting date, I see couple of
>>>>>>> disadvantages:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> a) Actual disbursement happens on a non-meeting date -
>>>>>>> Examples:
>>>>>>> Disbursement is done at the branch and not at the center meetings
>>>>>>> Or
>>>>>>> There is a loan product where a vendor supplies goods (like
>>>>>>> solar lamp or water purifier) to the MFI customer and the once
>>>>>>> installation
>>>>>>> of the lamp or purifier is completed, the vendor submits bills to MFI
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> MFI does disbursement. Customer repays the cost of lamp or purifier to
>>>>>>> MFI
>>>>>>> with interest. Here disbursement will rarely be on a meeting date.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> b) Will it be possible to disburse 2 loans products of 2 different
>>>>>>> disbursement/repayment frequencies to a customer who belongs to a group?
>>>>>>> For ex. customer has a JLG loan which is disbursed and re-paid at
>>>>>>> meetings
>>>>>>> and there is an Emergency loan which is disbursed and repaid outside of
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> group meetings.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I would like to hear from other MFI users, if you think there are
>>>>>>> any disadvantages in tying disbursement to meeting dates.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>>> Binny
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Fri, May 3, 2013 at 3:50 PM, Ashok <as...@confluxtechnologies.com
>>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi Amit,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Right now I don't have much details about the workbook or workflow
>>>>>>>> of group lending process used in GK, we tried to add existing features
>>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>>> Mifos. The Center and Group functionality in MifosX covers very basic,
>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>> requires lot of improvements.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> @Binny, do you have any details of GK's group lending workflow.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>>>> Ashok
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Fri, May 3, 2013 at 10:45 AM, AMIT JAIN
>>>>>>>> <amitjain....@gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hello Ashok,
>>>>>>>>> Can you sahre a group lending process workbook or workflow with me
>>>>>>>>> after that I am able to understand the process at MIFOS-X.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Might be there methodology is different from us.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Let me understand first.
>>>>>>>>> Thanks and Regards
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Fri, May 3, 2013 at 10:35 AM, Ashok <
>>>>>>>>> as...@confluxtechnologies.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Hi Ed,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Whatever Keith has mentioned is correct, thanks Keith.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Most of the restrictions are on UI, based on new requirements and
>>>>>>>>>> user inputs we can add more flexibility to group lending APIs. Soon
>>>>>>>>>> I will
>>>>>>>>>> be talking to Binny on GK requirements that should cover most of the
>>>>>>>>>> common
>>>>>>>>>> scenarios.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>>>>>> Ashok
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, May 2, 2013 at 10:07 PM, Keith Woodlock <
>>>>>>>>>> keithwoodl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Ed,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> As far as i understand this is a 'constraint' put in on the ui
>>>>>>>>>>> side (although it looked like theres a check on it in the backend)
>>>>>>>>>>> for JLG
>>>>>>>>>>> loans. That is you can still choose any disbursement date you like
>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>> 'individual loans' and as you say most people from group context
>>>>>>>>>>> will want
>>>>>>>>>>> that flexibility to but its not baked in by an means, the guys are
>>>>>>>>>>> trying
>>>>>>>>>>> to replicate what they see on mifos for GK which is fair enough
>>>>>>>>>>> cause there
>>>>>>>>>>> GK requirements.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Keith.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, May 2, 2013 at 5:29 PM, Ed Cable <edca...@gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Ashok,
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for the demo today of the group lending functionalities
>>>>>>>>>>>> in Mifos X.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I was concerned about the inability to select a disbursement
>>>>>>>>>>>> date outside of the meeting date. Isn't this a limitation from
>>>>>>>>>>>> legacy
>>>>>>>>>>>> Mifos that we were seeking to remove?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I understand that if a client doesn't belong to a center that
>>>>>>>>>>>> they can have a loan (individual or group) regardless of meeting
>>>>>>>>>>>> date but
>>>>>>>>>>>> is it now such that if a client belongs to a center, the loan
>>>>>>>>>>>> (group or
>>>>>>>>>>>> individual) can only be disbursed on the meeting date?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Does the flexibility to disburse outside of meeting date add
>>>>>>>>>>>> too many complexities at the group level? Is this the same for
>>>>>>>>>>>> loans at the
>>>>>>>>>>>> individual level?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Ed
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Thanks and Regards
>>>> Binny Gopinath Sreevas
>>>> +91-98861 39498
>>>> Skype: binny.gopinath
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>>
>
>
> --
> AMIT JAIN | E.D | Digamber Finance (Chota Loan Bade Sapne) | +919414041821
> |
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> It's a free troubleshooting tool designed for production
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--
Thanks and Regards
Binny Gopinath Sreevas
+91-98861 39498
Skype: binny.gopinath
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