Developing and delivering software like Mono is not an easy task and a complex engineering project. We're committed to delivering Mono 1.0 in June and supporting the Linux x86, MacOS X platforms, have no doubt about that. As you know we also intend to provide support for Solaris and Linux PPC. We're also committed to delivering GTK# 1.0 in this release and SWF by the end of the year.
We are privileged to observe the evolution of Mono on a daily basis. In my previous job, building from the source was something you didn't want to do unless you had to, builds were often broken and unreliable. A good build, one QA could work on, was a rare commodity. Most of us build Mono from CVS everyday with its share of frustration and disillusions but all in all, it often works. My main machine is a Powerbook running MacOS X but I also run Linux PPC, Linux x86 and Windows XP ; I have to because like Miguel, our Ximian engineers and all the good people contributing to Mono, I want to make sure we deliver on our promises. And because I mainly use MacOS X, I harass Miguel everyday about bugs I find. Mono on PPC has been frustrating in the last few weeks but I run 0.31 with some success. Recently, Miguel asked Martin to help out on PPC ; with his involvement in addition to Paolo's and Miguel's, I am confident we'll be successful.
<x-tad-smaller>Erik Dasque
Product Manager for Mono, Ximian.
Office: (+1) 617 613 2009
Cell: (+1) 617 953 9104
[EMAIL PROTECTED]</x-tad-smaller>
On Apr 9, 2004, at 1:07 AM, Steve Mentzer wrote:
Sadly, I must agree. The mono team have made excellent progress on bringing PPC into the JIT era.... but.....
On a whim, I decided to install fedora core 1 and build mono. It built and installed without incident. Truly remarkable. I must say that I was impressed. XSP kept crashing, but that is a different story...
On x86 hardware, I prefer windows xp/2003. Sorry, I love *nix, but linux doesn't do much for me on x86, especially when x86/windows offers 100% compatibility and killer dev tools. Frankly, there is no real reason to host asp.net apps under apache, when my XP box does better after locking it down. No religion here folks, just reality.
OS/X and PPC is a different story. This is a situation that is DYING for an x86 crossover platform. Don't talk to me about Java.... if I wanted java, I wouldn't be using mono or c#.
C++/wxWindows/Qt/GTK/etc... yawn. Once again, I want c#.
Mono on the PPC is painful. There is no *documented*, stable or official GUI toolkit support. Hell, even the core runtime is about as stable as IIS 4. :)
Beyond that, the mono releases are hit and miss. You have about a 75% chance of the build failing or getting the dreaded 'bus error'.
I appreciate the new features and the roadmap, but if all mono has to offer is x86/linux stability, then mono has only succeeded in doing is providing a 'free' implementation of the .net runtime that runs on the same commodity hardware that a fully supported and commercial version runs on.
Mono cannot win if it sticks to the 'linux vs. windows' card. Linux hacks hate MS and C# and .NET. Corporate windows users will be reluctant to adopt linux/mono when they can get a fully supported, commercial version from MS that will run on the same hardware. Believe it or not, most windows shops adopting .NET don't care about OS licensing costs or security. They are interested in RAD. So mono is a little like selling ice cubes to the eskimos.
Now, if mono ran reliably on HPUX, sparc, linux, os/x, windows, *bsd and some other *nix variants, then you would have succeeded in beating MS at their own game. The only argument against .net now is that it isn't cross platform. If mono fills that niche, then the sky is the limit.
No offense to the mono team, but you should either drop support for PPC entirely or actually concentrate on getting it as stable as x86/linux.
Sorry for the long rant guys... its been a long day... :)
Original Message -----------------------
my problem with gtk# personally is that mac os x is not supported.
although you can find people who hacked it together, if you co it
from cvs, and install it, the samples don't work. i don't have a linux
box, only a mac, and i would love to play with mono on it, but it's
been two months now, and i don't feel any closer.
there are also problems with xsp, and sometimes mono doesn't compile
either (i mean cvs version).
regards,
Grudgingly, I have to agree with above statement(s). Mono support for
Mac OS X/ PPC is fragile at best. I even tried to put together a page
on the basic steps (
http://homepage.mac.com/griffincaprio/mono/RunningMonoOnMacOSX.html ),
but I have all but given up trying to maintain that page. This is
because mono not reliable from day to day, release to release, on the
PPC / Mac OS X platform.
I am not saying that running off the CVS tree is the most stable way to
work, but this goes for the releases also. 0.29 worked on the PPC,
0.30 didn't without some major hacking. 0.31 doesn't work reliably,
either.
Some of the steps I have taken to compile mono include:
- configure switches
- external, 3rd party source downloads
- editing actual code/headers to accommodate the PPC platform.
What's worse, is that when I encounter errors, i receive almost no help
on the mailing lists. Some of these are not doubt strange errors, and
some are very common, but my posts go unanswered either way.
I haven't even gotten to gtk#...
Segmentation faults, bus errors, frozen compiles, etc.... The list
goes on and on. I hope to come back to mono in a few months, when/if
PPC support is better. But for now, I feel that it's a lost cause.
- Griffin
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