I haven't used roller-furling on an M-boat, but agree with Tim's thoughts on foredeck work and hank-on jibs. I wouldn't attempt changing jibs on an M-15 while standing, unless maybe it was flat calm. While sitting, you can reach the pulpit, mast and forestay without moving your butt!
Bill Riker M-15 - Storm Petrel -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tim Diebert Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2008 9:13 AM To: 'For and about Montgomery Sailboats' Subject: RE: M_Boats: Re: M17 heavy weather capabilities >" We're talking about an M17 here, right?" That was what I was thinking as well Tom.....that he must have meant a 15. Although it has been three months since the boat was put to bed for hibernation, I seem to recall that distance being much too far to reach the forestay at any point let alone the stemhead. Either way. A down haul is about as easy as it gets. It is actually faster than a roller in a panic and costs next to nothing. When we adopted our 17 it had a CDI roller unit on there. At first it was a fun new toy....Daphne, my wife, actually loved the thing....but I ended up taking it off and having the 155 converted to hank on. There were a few aspects of the roller that bothered me and limited my sailing style. I like the correct sail for the occasion. You are stuck with whatever is on your furler. Even though ours was a 'reefing' furler, the mods that are done to the sail to be able to do this are not acceptable in my mind....all that line and foam stuff sewn into the sail.....nutty. Anything other than full sail was a compromise as far as sail shape goes. You could get by on a rolled reef on anything bellow a beamer....but even forereaching the sails shape sucked. The secondary parts of the roller that pushed me to convert back to basics was it was awkward to stow when taking down rig. And when the sail was rolled up it presented a huge amount of windage. If you consider the layers here it was one huge mother of a sausage sticking way up there. With a reefing sail you have the foam and stuff, then in some cases (such as mine) the UV protective layer, then accounting for the fact that it is a 155 with all the material involved here....and in my case I have a Sunbrella cover for when the boat is left fully rigged on trailer for most of the season. That is huge. Even without the Sunbrella cover. One June afternoon I was at the boat doing some work when one of our Okanagan Ninja winds passed through. Standing on deck and feeling the amount of pressure on the rig and boat coming via the big blue sausage was the last time the roller saw the light of day. If the trailer wheels weren't chocked, we might have trailer sailed right across the marina parking lot. With the big blue banana gone there is almost no windage effect on the boat. I could see going back to roller(s) if I converted to a cutter rig and different style rollers. That way you could sail with a 130 on the forestay or the staysl on the inner....or both. Both could be furled or set from the cockpit. As far as being on or getting to the foredeck on a 17. Piece of cake. Just remember the old saying, "one hand for you and one hand for the boat". There is lots to hang on to on a 17. Once I am on the foredeck there is a great area for standing or kneeling and doing headsail changes. I have been out there and had bow buried deep enough in a trough to get me very wet. At no time have I felt threatened enough to be bothered. If the conditions are bad enough I sit on the hatch as soon as I get up there and then slide my butt down to the deck, then either butt my heels into the toe rail or hang my legs (from the knees) over the side while I do whatever needs doing. The life lines are right there at that point so hang on to one if you can, when you can't, just keep in mind where they are for one you might need to snatch one up. It is always exciting, but that's the fun part of sailing.....for me anyway. I am no super youngster. I am about 20 lbs. overweight (but very active and healthy) 51 year old. I feel that if someone is not able move freely about the decks or to get on the foredeck of their sailboat to make a sail change to fix something that is broken, then they should consider a physical training program or look at a taking up a different hobby. The decks and foredeck are a vital area of any sailboat and you need to be able to work there. As much as sailing is fun and relaxing at times, it can also be wicked serious as well. A roller will not always prevent the need for your presence on the foredeck....those thing jam. Mine did, and I read about failures now and again. There is not one piece of gear on a sailboat I would trust to work all the time. Oh right, one tool not mentioned that makes foredeck work easier........beer. ~:0) That's my humble opinion and I am sticking to it until I forget what I said......2 Canadian cents worth. Cheers, Tim Diebert M17 #369 'Puff' Kelowna BC....(currently in hibernation and experiencing 31 degrees, snow on the way and 28 knot gusts.) .............................................................. Tom said: We're talking about an M17 here, right? You aren't reaching the forestay from the hatch regardless of where the hinges are. It's too far. If you're changing sails, you're going out on the deck. Lacking roller furling, use the downhaul to get the headsail down until you can get your act together. t -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of edward haile Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2008 12:02 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: RE: M_Boats: Re: M17 heavy weather capabilities My previous email was written without reviewing some of your comments here. But what would you think of this idea? Turn the hatch hinges around (BoB Eeg told me something about how the law will require sooner or later foreward hinges so he's doing it now). This will allow you to standup and reach the forestay easily. Cast off the jib tack and jib halyard and you are there. You can now pull the peak and the tack together and snap on another jib. Or, if the wind is really screaming, depending on how much slack you build into the tack and peak lines, you could haul the jib, still attached top and bottom, through the hatch and change sails in the cabin, reemerge and let go the new sail and reset it with the two lines. What's the boat doing in the meantime (if you're alone)? What if you raised the rudder out of the water and sheeted the main down amidships. Shouldn't the boat weathercock? The forefoot shd dig in from your weight and the stern will have little lateral resistance. The centerboard down might be a problem. What's yr take on this? ED> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2008 12:34:00 -0500> To: [email protected]> Subject: M_Boats: Re: M17 heavy weather capabilities> > I'd have to second Gary's observations about the M17 hatch. I'm a pretty big > boy and honestly I never tried it. My 17 had the backwards opening front > hatch, so even if you fit, the hatch lid would prevent you from leaning forward. > In this photo you can see the hinges are on the front of the hatch and that > there's no way you'd be able to work around it to deal with the luff of the > jib.> > _http://msogphotosite.com/MSOG/b17thomps/b17thomps7.jpg_ > (http://msogphotosite.com/MSOG/b17thomps/b17thomps7.jpg) > > On later versions and I believe the new M17's that Bob builds the hatch > opens from the front...> Hey Gary H.! Doesn't your hatch open from the front??? Could you manage a > headsail change through it???> (http://msogphotosite.com/MSOG/b17thomps/b17thomps7.jpg) > Lately, I have been experimenting for the first time ever (for me) with a > simple downhaul attached to the jib/genoa head. Holly cow, why I never did this > before is beyond me. I don't mind going forward and pulling a sail down when > someone's on the helm but when singlehanding it's a pain. When I'm alone I > try to make sure I don't overcanvass for the conditions, but if I do, now I can > at least get the sail down on the deck and secure before I ever leave the > relative safety of the cockpit. It also allows me to hank on a jib at the dock > , and attach the halyard without worry that the halyard is going to foul > something by swinging around slack before I'm ready to raise it. I just hook up > the downhaul and tension the halyard. I know, I know, roller furling would > solve that issue. Someday I may go back to a furler, but for now I'm happy with > hank-ons.> > Sean> > > > **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. > http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489> _______________________________________________> http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats _________________________________________________________________ Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live. http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_012008_ ______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. 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