Hi,
You didn't reply here but you have, you don't speak for phil but you
are, that all makes sense Ari. (I can see your making it up as you go
along - great start)
The main reason so much went off is because certain members including
yourself couldn't conduct themselves in a mature manner Ari, not because
i didn't let people talk, when people got insulting it was time to end
the threads. There are ways of making people learn...Ridiculing and
being insulting isn't one of them.
RE: So don't come along now and say that anyone "ridiculed (you) for
not having the experience". MANY TRIED, they all were banned. And the
Minty White issue was just one.
I never said (i) was the one being ridiculed, but thanks for admitting
i was, RE: Many tried and were banned.......Your twisting the truth Ari,
both you an I know this! You might not have any rules on your forum, but
there are justified ones on mine and that is not going to change.
There is obviously no point in me continuing to make peace as your not
prepared to listen Ari. Your maturity has shone through once again!!
It was a bad idea to try and think you might have reasoned with the
whole cross-forum feud. I tried, If your not prepared to make any effort
then so be it - you obviously still hold a grudge for your own wrong
doing.
Out of respect for MOPO and Scott, this is the last I will say on the
topic
Andy
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 19:02:03 -0700
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [MOPO] Fake inserts, LAMP's reply to my question
To: MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU
<mailto:MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU>
Hi Andy,
As this discussion relates to NS4 and MPF, rather than MOPO, I
didn't reply here.
Probably or possibly why Phil "carefully avoided" your question -
although I don't speak for him.
If you want to join NS4, feel free (if you aren't a member
already) and we can talk, OR if you want to let NS4 members
rejoin MPF, then maybe.
Anyway I did reply on NS4 and here's the link:
http://p103.ezboard.com/fstylecfrm2.showMessage?topicID=4101.topic
Regarding the Inserts, of course there is no controversy, anyone
who has seen one knows they are fake.
Anyone who says otherwise owns a lot and wants to sell, OR paid
too much for them and is in denial.
One of the main reason so much went down at MPF and why people
left in droves or were driven out, was because you tried to
stifle the views of people who knew, rather than learn. So don't
come along now and say that anyone "ridiculed (you) for not
having the experience". MANY TRIED, they all were banned. And the
Minty White issue was just one.
One more thing, a MAKE PEACE statement aimed at just Phil and I
is fine, but more important would be towards the many members at
NS4 and MOPO who were banned/suspended and deleted. They are your
target members, not a couple of grumpy Aussies.
All the best,
Ari
----- Original Message ----
From: Andy Neal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>
To: MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU
<mailto:MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU>
Sent: Tuesday, 12 June, 2007 5:56:02 PM
Subject: Re: [MOPO] Fake inserts, LAMP's reply to my question
[QUOTE]
I can't believe we (mostly some of the other dinosaurs who graze
here) are even having this discussion yet again about minty white
inserts and trying to attribute credibility to them in any way,
shape or form.
[/QUOTE]
Phil,
I think you are missing the point, people need educating
not ridiculed for not having the experience or knowledge, you
were a new movie poster collector once, remember that.... You
carefully avoided my question earlier also.
Andy
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 11:28:55 +1000
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [MOPO] Fake inserts, LAMP's reply to my question
To: MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU
<mailto:MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU>
I am absolutely sure they are fake and were not produced for
use in conjunction with exhibition of the films they
represent - which is what real movie posters are actually
produced for.
When these first surfaced in Australia, the Sydney movie
poster store that was selling them tried to sell them to me
as the real deal. Obviously, after so many years (many more
than this joker had) handling movie paper it was obvious that
the paper for these inserts was wrong, the printing lacked a
certain finish and the whole thing didn't even pass a good
sniffing test (don't all laugh.... it's still the best way to
check a STAR WARS one sheet original!) I didn't need to start
comparing how some of them had different art crops to
absolutely bona fide originals.
He finally owned up they were what they were - repros, and
that there was an inexhaustible supply of them.
This was the same dealer who confidently bought STAR WARS
hairy belt repros and sold them for originals on the basis
that people wouldn't know the difference. $5 each to buy, and
sold for anything from $200 - $300 each, depending on how big
the sucker who walked through the door was.
I can't believe we (mostly some of the other dinosaurs who
graze here) are even having this discussion yet again about
minty white inserts and trying to attribute credibility to
them in any way, shape or form.
Phil
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Helmut Hamm <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
*To:* MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU
<mailto:MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU>
*Sent:* Tuesday, June 12, 2007 12:52 AM
*Subject:* [MOPO] Fake inserts, LAMP's reply to my question
Please find Ed's reply to my question below.
Helmut
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: [MOPO] Fake inserts, an open
question to LAMP]
Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Hi Helmut,
I apologize for the delay in response to you. Your
email was just forwarded to me this morning. I do not
read or go on any of the forums anymore for several
reasons. 1. Our workload has reached such a level
that Sue and I are basically trying to do the work of
a full staff. We have also taken on several court
cases that might have an effect on the hobby which
has us doing a massive amount of research. 2. Since
Hurricane Katrina, I just don't have the patience for
a lot of debates anymore. Now, lack of common sense
sends me into a frenzy. 3. A lot of the debates on
the forums just seem to be for the purpose of
argument or mudslinging and I don't have the time or
patience to get involved. ( I guess this is a
definate sign of getting old)
Now we tell people to just email me direct (my email
address is everywhere on LAMP)... and I am more than
happy to respond to any and all personal discussions
when any type of learning (on either side) is the
objective.
For your question about the 'minty whites'
I am at a disadvantage on this subject because I have
never personally handled or compared them. BUT I have
asked several dealers that I have great respect for
what they thought. I received an indepth answer from
Bruce who stated that he could tell the difference
between them in the dark.. that the feel of the paper
was vastly different and the 'minty whites' had the
more slick reproduction feel.
BUT, our stance on the subject is.. that is doesn't
matter what we think about them.... It's what the
HOBBY thinks about them. The poster collecting hobby
is based on pure economics. Supply and Demand. If the
demand for them is there, then the price on them will
rise no matter what anybody says... BUT if the hobby
has determined that they are 'fakes' (whether they
are or not) THEN the hobby will avoid them, they will
not increase and re-selling will become difficult.
Consequently the dealers or collectors in jeopardy of
purchasing them with the intent of reselling them are
the ones that are not informed about them OR the ones
without enough experience to know the difference. -
As an example, a number of years ago, we were called
to be an expert witness for a court case involving
Nightmare Before Christmas US one sheets. The value
was rising rapidly and they were fetching $100 each
or more at the time. An aggressive collector found
Nightmare Before Christmas one sheets in the Suncoast
retail chain for $15 marked that they were 'original
movie posters', so he made his rounds, I believe over
a couple of states buying up the posters. They were
identical from the front because they came from the
original plates but they didn't have the numbers or
Disney tag on the back for the posters that were
issued to the theaters. The retail chain gave his
money back and changed the stickers on their posters.
The point is... the HOBBY would accept these for the
market value and it took experience and education to
tell the difference.
We believe the way to solve problems like this is
through education.... Mudslinging and rock throwing
only creates MORE mudslinging and rock throwing and
then basically no one wins and the hobby becomes more
split. We try to use LAMP to alert new collectors and
dealers that the HOBBY has a problem with certain
types of posters and if they are purchasing for
investment, these types of posters are NOT a good
investment.
Currently we place a note on every 'minty white' that
has been submitted to us that there is controversy of
that particular poster to alert them... Our tag reads
"Caution There is a lot of controversy between
dealers over the Jaws Insert Poster
<http://www.learnaboutmovieposters.com/posters/db/poster.asp?pid=2041>.
Some dealers say that some posters are too 'minty'
white to be original."
We are planning to give a stronger warning on them in
the archive... I have a 'WARNING' section with room
for more indepth information about each individual
poster that is in question already programmed into
our database.... but I haven't had the time to come
back and do some final connections or writeups to
turn it on.
I hope this answers your question to show our point
of view. If you have any others or if there's
anything I can do for you, please let me know..
ed
p.s. if you want to post this, that is fine.
Galerie filmposter.net
Inh. Helmut Hamm
Puecklerstr. 21
10997 Berlin-Kreuzberg
Fon: +4930.308.249.53
Fax: +4930.308.249.54
http://www.filmposter.net
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