this is the great thing about expressing one's opinions.... how 2
people can watch a film, look at art, etc. and one can say the piece,
image or film is great..and another can say it is so-so...
jeff
On Feb 24, 2009, at 1:24 PM, Franc wrote:
Bruce, I'd recommend you drive the two hours to see MILK which was
a terrific film, whereas The Wrestler was so-so. Mickey Rourke gave
a very good performance but I kept thinking he was actually playing
himself whereas Sean Penn was really stretching to play Harvey
Milk. He was superb and although the film is not a great film, it's
certainly far superior to The Wrestler. FRANC
-----Original Message-----
From: MoPo List [mailto:mop...@listserv.american.edu] On Behalf Of
David Kusumoto
Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2009 3:43 PM
To: MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU
Subject: Re: [MOPO] OSCARS
Hi Bruce -- Because of the multiple forwarding of text -- you
accidentally credited me for writing the first paragraph in your
note. Craig Miller wrote it -- he felt Penn was better than Rourke
-- and that "Milk" as a film was better than "The Wrestler." He
defended both views admirably, and "nailed" why Penn was better,
but I disagreed on both counts; Penn did a fine job in what to me
felt like a TV-movie-structured bio-pic.
I myself would not drive two hours to see "Milk" again. But I
would do it to see "The Wrestler" -- because of the originality of
its presentation and the sheer force of Rourke's performance.
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2009 12:57:32 -0600
Subject: Re: [MOPO] OSCARS
From: brucehershen...@gmail.com
To: davidmkusum...@hotmail.com
CC: MoPo-L@listserv.american.edu
David wrote: "This was, by far, Sean Penn's best performance. He's
a heavily mannered actor whose performances are always full of the
things actors love: screaming, crying, dying, being mentally
handicapped. You can always see "acting". But in "Milk", he gave a
subtle, nuanced performance that wasn't full of ticks. He relaxed
into the character and stopped being "Sean Penn, A*c*t*o*r"."
You nailed it here, David. For me, Penn has always been one of
those "actor" types who I respect, but I never ever feel that I am
watching anyone other than Sean Penn acting (and even though he
does a great job, I still see the performance, and not the person
he is supposed to be). I have the same trouble with such other
icons as Meryl Streep and Jack Lemmon. Not true (for me) with De
Niro, Muni, or Brando. Probably the greatest of all for me in
getting me to forget the actor and see the character is Daniel Day
Lewis. That does not equate to the greatest actor ever, but in this
one element I find him the top of the list.
I have not seen Milk, but from the clips I have seen it seems clear
he DOES transcend his acting and become the person he portrays and
I can't wait to see it. I will likely drive 2 hours to see it (no
chance it would play in this tiny homophobic town), because I want
to see it the right way.
I was reading a biography of Brando, and he was saying he was in a
play early in his career and Paul Muni was in it too and at the end
of the first act Muni's character dies, and he said he wasn't in
that part of the play, but that he would watch that scene every
single night, because Muni brought something fresh to it every
single night!
There are actors who do a good solid job (like Robert Redford) and
I like them and enjoy their movies, but there are also actors who
put their entire soul into most of their performances, and that is
a joy to behold.
I thought it was a wonderful compliment when De Niro said to Penn,
"How did you play straight all these years?", meaning it was such a
great performance that one would natural assume that Penn himself
had to be gay to play the role that well!
Bruce
On Tue, Feb 24, 2009 at 2:50 AM, David Kusumoto
<davidmkusum...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Craig:
No argument here as to "Milk" being Sean Penn's best performance
ever. I just felt Rourke's performance -- put side-by-side among
those nominated -- was phenomenal. And I admit going in, I didn't
want it to be so because of my antipathy towards Rourke. I think
the appeal of "Milk" vs. "The Wrestler" (and Penn vs. Rourke) --
depends upon the expectations and biases you bring after you put
your money down. For the sake of time, I'll just copy and paste
portions of what I wrote earlier today -- in response to a few
people who commented privately about my take/analysis of the
dynamics behind Penn's win, his victory at the SAG awards last
month -- and the hatred many people have out here against Rourke
because of his documented run-ins, lack of professionalism, right-
wing comments and his, for wont of a better phrase, overall weirdness.
<<<<"Hollywood has always been uncomfortable with conservatives
like Heston, Stewart, Wayne, Cagney, Hope, Eastwood, Nicholson and
Rourke. But in the case of Hope, Eastwood and Nicholson, Hollywood
prefers its conservatives to refrain from being outspoken like
Heston, Wayne and Rourke (but I'm in no way putting Rourke in the
same iconic league as Heston and Wayne). It's just a double-
standard about Hollywood itself in the post-Vietnam era. ....I
hope you are happy for Sean Penn's win because of his performance
-- without regard to issues regarding the nobility and heroic
nature of Harvey Milk himself. Because for the longest time, I
felt Penn OWNED the best performance of 2008 -- slam dunk -- UNTIL
I saw "The Wrestler." It was then I had to face down my own
prejudices against Rourke -- and decide as honestly as I could --
who turned in the better performance. Penn was great, but Rourke's
was something you see about as often, as I said, as a DeNiro in
Raging Bull or a Hopkins in Lambs. I'm not kidding, I went in with
low expectations, almost rooting against the picture because of all
I had seen before. But the acting and the film were amazing. Not
what I expected. I felt "The Wrestler" should have been nominated
for Best Picture. It had an austere, hand-held, grainy
authenticity many would appreciate. I so did NOT want to see the
picture, but I came out feeling it was time well worth spent.">>>>>
<<<<"Now as to the merits of "Milk" vs. any other film nominated in
the Best Picture category. My view is "Milk" was structured
conventionally like any standard bio-pic. But Penn's performance
transcends the linear construct. Without him, "Milk" sinks like a
dead weight TV-movie. Had "Milk" been presented more innovatively
-- Harvey Milk's journey and accomplishments -- would've felt more
profound and emotional with audiences of all stripes, gay AND
straight. I am always hoping a film like this does more than
preach to a choir of believers who know how the story ends. "Milk"
is based on titanic material -- but lacks the necessary balance of
subtlety, sledgehammer and innovation -- that should have left all
other pictures in the dust. This is why perhaps in my view only,
"Milk" does not feel "best" or even "new." It's supposed to play
out like a high-stakes emotional drama, not a paint-by-numbers
canonization. The national scope of the story with Anita Bryant
and other "villains" are treated like a documentary. The movie's
engine is Penn's charisma, not the script, and this doesn't quite
feel right. And I've purposely left out the fact -- (because most
people haven't seen it) -- that this same material was covered in a
superior documentary, "The Life and Times of Harvey Milk" in
1984.>>>>>
I'm back again. It's ironic that "Milk" is even being debated
against "The Wrestler" -- when the more relevant discussion as it
relates to the Oscars -- is how "Slumdog" overcame its flaws and
beat everybody up. My wife and I liked "Slumdog," but it didn't
move us in the same way the meditative and reflective "Benjamin
Button" did, however over produced it was. Its existential ideas
about the transient nature of life, love and mortality matter to
anyone over 50. Maybe that's why it's a box office failure. Could
its weighty ideas been explored as effectively for less money?
Maybe. But what a handsome picture it is.
-d.
> Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2009 22:53:11 -0800
> To: davidmkusum...@hotmail.com
> From: cr...@wolfmill.com
> Subject: Re: [MOPO] MOPO] OSCARS
> CC: MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU
>
> At 12:18 PM 2/23/2009, David Kusumoto wrote:
> >I was extremely disappointed with Sean Penn's win. Sean Penn is an
> >outstanding actor who gave an uncharacteristically loose, engaging
> >and wonderful turn as an heroic figure -- in what I thought was a
> >conventionally structured, by-the-numbers-bio-pic capped with the
> >standard "where-are-they-now" text epilogue. His performance was
> >noble and deserving -- but his victory was politically correct and
> >in keeping with the Academy's self-seriousness to anoint things
> >historic that makes it feel good about itself (hence the
standing ovation).
> >
> >But in my view, the demands of his role paled compared to Mickey
> >Rourke's shattering, full-range performance in "The Wrestler." I am
> >not a fan of Mickey Rourke and dislike him intensely. But I could
> >not ignore -- having seen all the performances nominated this year
> >-- what he did in this picture, from start to finish. His character
> >was an exercise in total immersion, on par with what I believe have
> >been the best larger-than-life performances nominated since 1980 --
> >including De Niro in Raging Bull (win), Hopkins in Silence of the
> >Lambs (win), and Liam Neeson in Schindler's List (lost to Tom
Hanks).
>
> This was, by far, Sean Penn's best performance. He's a heavily
mannered
> actor whose performances are always full of the things actors love:
> screaming, crying, dying, being mentally handicapped. You can always
> see "acting". But in "Milk", he gave a subtle, nuanced
performance that
> wasn't full of ticks. He relaxed into the character and stopped
being "Sean
> Penn, A*c*t*o*r". I thought he deserved the award (although I
also thought
> that Mickey Rourke was excellent).
>
> While not related to who should win for their performance, I
thought "Milk"
> a better film than "The Wrestler". Rourke and Marisa Tomei were both
> great but the film was only "okay".
>
> Craig.
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Craig Miller Wolfmill Entertainment cr...@wolfmill.com
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
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