Oddly enough I feel the way about posts to MOPO!
Glenn T.
----- Original Message -----
From: Jeff Potokar
To: MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU
Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2009 1:33 PM
Subject: Re: [MOPO] OSCARS
this is the great thing about expressing one's opinions.... how 2 people can
watch a film, look at art, etc. and one can say the piece, image or film is
great..and another can say it is so-so...
jeff
On Feb 24, 2009, at 1:24 PM, Franc wrote:
Bruce, I'd recommend you drive the two hours to see MILK which was a
terrific film, whereas The Wrestler was so-so. Mickey Rourke gave a very good
performance but I kept thinking he was actually playing himself whereas Sean
Penn was really stretching to play Harvey Milk. He was superb and although the
film is not a great film, it's certainly far superior to The Wrestler. FRANC
-----Original Message-----
From: MoPo List [mailto:mop...@listserv.american.edu] On Behalf Of David
Kusumoto
Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2009 3:43 PM
To: MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU
Subject: Re: [MOPO] OSCARS
Hi Bruce -- Because of the multiple forwarding of text -- you
accidentally credited me for writing the first paragraph in your note. Craig
Miller wrote it -- he felt Penn was better than Rourke -- and that "Milk" as a
film was better than "The Wrestler." He defended both views admirably, and
"nailed" why Penn was better, but I disagreed on both counts; Penn did a fine
job in what to me felt like a TV-movie-structured bio-pic.
I myself would not drive two hours to see "Milk" again. But I would do
it to see "The Wrestler" -- because of the originality of its presentation and
the sheer force of Rourke's performance.
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Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2009 12:57:32 -0600
Subject: Re: [MOPO] OSCARS
From: brucehershen...@gmail.com
To: davidmkusum...@hotmail.com
CC: MoPo-L@listserv.american.edu
David wrote: "This was, by far, Sean Penn's best performance. He's a
heavily mannered actor whose performances are always full of the things actors
love: screaming, crying, dying, being mentally handicapped. You can always see
"acting". But in "Milk", he gave a subtle, nuanced performance that wasn't full
of ticks. He relaxed into the character and stopped being "Sean Penn,
A*c*t*o*r"."
You nailed it here, David. For me, Penn has always been one of those
"actor" types who I respect, but I never ever feel that I am watching anyone
other than Sean Penn acting (and even though he does a great job, I still see
the performance, and not the person he is supposed to be). I have the same
trouble with such other icons as Meryl Streep and Jack Lemmon. Not true (for
me) with De Niro, Muni, or Brando. Probably the greatest of all for me in
getting me to forget the actor and see the character is Daniel Day Lewis. That
does not equate to the greatest actor ever, but in this one element I find him
the top of the list.
I have not seen Milk, but from the clips I have seen it seems clear he
DOES transcend his acting and become the person he portrays and I can't wait to
see it. I will likely drive 2 hours to see it (no chance it would play in this
tiny homophobic town), because I want to see it the right way.
I was reading a biography of Brando, and he was saying he was in a play
early in his career and Paul Muni was in it too and at the end of the first act
Muni's character dies, and he said he wasn't in that part of the play, but that
he would watch that scene every single night, because Muni brought something
fresh to it every single night!
There are actors who do a good solid job (like Robert Redford) and I like
them and enjoy their movies, but there are also actors who put their entire
soul into most of their performances, and that is a joy to behold.
I thought it was a wonderful compliment when De Niro said to Penn, "How
did you play straight all these years?", meaning it was such a great
performance that one would natural assume that Penn himself had to be gay to
play the role that well!
Bruce
On Tue, Feb 24, 2009 at 2:50 AM, David Kusumoto
<davidmkusum...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Craig:
No argument here as to "Milk" being Sean Penn's best performance ever.
I just felt Rourke's performance -- put side-by-side among those nominated --
was phenomenal. And I admit going in, I didn't want it to be so because of my
antipathy towards Rourke. I think the appeal of "Milk" vs. "The Wrestler" (and
Penn vs. Rourke) -- depends upon the expectations and biases you bring after
you put your money down. For the sake of time, I'll just copy and paste
portions of what I wrote earlier today -- in response to a few people who
commented privately about my take/analysis of the dynamics behind Penn's win,
his victory at the SAG awards last month -- and the hatred many people have out
here against Rourke because of his documented run-ins, lack of professionalism,
right-wing comments and his, for wont of a better phrase, overall weirdness.
<<<<"Hollywood has always been uncomfortable with conservatives like
Heston, Stewart, Wayne, Cagney, Hope, Eastwood, Nicholson and Rourke. But in
the case of Hope, Eastwood and Nicholson, Hollywood prefers its conservatives
to refrain from being outspoken like Heston, Wayne and Rourke (but I'm in no
way putting Rourke in the same iconic league as Heston and Wayne). It's just a
double-standard about Hollywood itself in the post-Vietnam era. ....I hope you
are happy for Sean Penn's win because of his performance -- without regard to
issues regarding the nobility and heroic nature of Harvey Milk himself.
Because for the longest time, I felt Penn OWNED the best performance of 2008 --
slam dunk -- UNTIL I saw "The Wrestler." It was then I had to face down my own
prejudices against Rourke -- and decide as honestly as I could -- who turned in
the better performance. Penn was great, but Rourke's was something you see
about as often, as I said, as a DeNiro in Raging Bull or a Hopkins in Lambs.
I'm not kidding, I went in with low expectations, almost rooting against the
picture because of all I had seen before. But the acting and the film were
amazing. Not what I expected. I felt "The Wrestler" should have been
nominated for Best Picture. It had an austere, hand-held, grainy authenticity
many would appreciate. I so did NOT want to see the picture, but I came out
feeling it was time well worth spent.">>>>>
<<<<"Now as to the merits of "Milk" vs. any other film nominated in the
Best Picture category. My view is "Milk" was structured conventionally like
any standard bio-pic. But Penn's performance transcends the linear construct.
Without him, "Milk" sinks like a dead weight TV-movie. Had "Milk" been
presented more innovatively -- Harvey Milk's journey and accomplishments --
would've felt more profound and emotional with audiences of all stripes, gay
AND straight. I am always hoping a film like this does more than preach to a
choir of believers who know how the story ends. "Milk" is based on titanic
material -- but lacks the necessary balance of subtlety, sledgehammer and
innovation -- that should have left all other pictures in the dust. This is
why perhaps in my view only, "Milk" does not feel "best" or even "new." It's
supposed to play out like a high-stakes emotional drama, not a paint-by-numbers
canonization. The national scope of the story with Anita Bryant and other
"villains" are treated like a documentary. The movie's engine is Penn's
charisma, not the script, and this doesn't quite feel right. And I've
purposely left out the fact -- (because most people haven't seen it) -- that
this same material was covered in a superior documentary, "The Life and Times
of Harvey Milk" in 1984.>>>>>
I'm back again. It's ironic that "Milk" is even being debated against
"The Wrestler" -- when the more relevant discussion as it relates to the Oscars
-- is how "Slumdog" overcame its flaws and beat everybody up. My wife and I
liked "Slumdog," but it didn't move us in the same way the meditative and
reflective "Benjamin Button" did, however over produced it was. Its
existential ideas about the transient nature of life, love and mortality matter
to anyone over 50. Maybe that's why it's a box office failure. Could its
weighty ideas been explored as effectively for less money? Maybe. But what a
handsome picture it is.
-d.
> Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2009 22:53:11 -0800
> To: davidmkusum...@hotmail.com
> From: cr...@wolfmill.com
> Subject: Re: [MOPO] MOPO] OSCARS
> CC: MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU
>
> At 12:18 PM 2/23/2009, David Kusumoto wrote:
> >I was extremely disappointed with Sean Penn's win. Sean Penn is an
> >outstanding actor who gave an uncharacteristically loose, engaging
> >and wonderful turn as an heroic figure -- in what I thought was a
> >conventionally structured, by-the-numbers-bio-pic capped with the
> >standard "where-are-they-now" text epilogue. His performance was
> >noble and deserving -- but his victory was politically correct and
> >in keeping with the Academy's self-seriousness to anoint things
> >historic that makes it feel good about itself (hence the standing
ovation).
> >
> >But in my view, the demands of his role paled compared to Mickey
> >Rourke's shattering, full-range performance in "The Wrestler." I am
> >not a fan of Mickey Rourke and dislike him intensely. But I could
> >not ignore -- having seen all the performances nominated this year
> >-- what he did in this picture, from start to finish. His character
> >was an exercise in total immersion, on par with what I believe have
> >been the best larger-than-life performances nominated since 1980 --
> >including De Niro in Raging Bull (win), Hopkins in Silence of the
> >Lambs (win), and Liam Neeson in Schindler's List (lost to Tom Hanks).
>
> This was, by far, Sean Penn's best performance. He's a heavily
mannered
> actor whose performances are always full of the things actors love:
> screaming, crying, dying, being mentally handicapped. You can always
> see "acting". But in "Milk", he gave a subtle, nuanced performance
that
> wasn't full of ticks. He relaxed into the character and stopped being
"Sean
> Penn, A*c*t*o*r". I thought he deserved the award (although I also
thought
> that Mickey Rourke was excellent).
>
> While not related to who should win for their performance, I thought
"Milk"
> a better film than "The Wrestler". Rourke and Marisa Tomei were both
> great but the film was only "okay".
>
> Craig.
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Craig Miller Wolfmill Entertainment cr...@wolfmill.com
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
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