I recently returned one of these to a very reputable Ebay seller and
my two cents in this debate is that I would never consider selling
something that I was not sure was authentic. The questions
surrounding it are enough to walk away (even if the seller did not
take it back).
I think every honest and reputable dealer has that obligation. I have
a tube with other suspect items (including two minty white ENFORCER
inserts) that I am not interested in selling. At the end of the day,
we only have our reputation and one (or a few) posters are not worth
that risk.
Regards,
sam sarowitz
Posteritati
239 Centre Street
New York, NY 10013
212-226-2207/ Fax: 212-226-2102
http://www.posteritati.com/
On Nov 30, 2009, at 7:14 AM, Bruce Hershenson wrote:
Aside from whether these are real or fake, there is also the issue
of just how many this guy has. He has sold them all over the place,
but seems to keep coming up with more. If he had 20 or 30 of them
he would have sold them all to one person and been done with it. He
may well have hundreds of these, even if they ARE authentic.
So this is one poster where you surely can't say, "Years can go by
without one of these coming up for sale"!
Also, the vast majority of posters where I say, "We have never seen
this particular style one sheet before!" is a poster that is
consistent with those of that year. But this one is not, as it is
rolled. You write "rolled yes....a red flag certainly.....but not
unheard of especially if it was a giveaway".
So if it is a "giveaway", then it certainly is not "theater-used"
as well.
If you want truth in advertising, say it is likely a giveaway from
an unknown date. Then if you sell it, the buyer has nothing to
complain about. Especially because he is sure to see it over and
over and over again in the next few months and years.
This reminds me of the "pink" Doc Octopus Spider Man posters a guy
was selling on eBay. He ASSURED everyone he had received them at
the ComiCon, and that they had given away pink and red ones, and
that anyone who preferred a red one could trade the pink one in to
him, which bought him more time to sell more of them. Trouble was
he disappeared soon after he sold his supply of pink bootlegs,
never to be heard from again.
Offer this Woodstock poster for sale if you want, but it is never
going to sell for much, given its murky origins, and its huge supply.
On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 1:03 AM, David Lieberman <dli...@aol.com>
wrote:
This "everything is fake lately" hysteria is just ridiculous. The
conspiracy theorists are alive and well!!
(not aimed at you Freeman or Kirby!!)
reasons we believe they are authentic.....given the evidence
presented so far.
1. full size 27x41
2. right kind of paper consistent with the era....thin stock,
glossy/semi gloss front with matte back.
3. LPIU printer union logo.
4. L hash marks on the corners.
5. Some of them have light foxing.....signs of age (so we've been
told by a mopo dealer who has a few).....so they are definitely old
unless someone faked foxing on a few of them.
6. Print quality is far from perfect.....which suggests
authenticity........not repro. If someone were creating a bootleg/
fake for resale they would undoubtedly fix the minor printing
defects this has.
7. expert opinions from 3 other dealers who have actually handled
them (admittedly, they like to stay out of the fray and remain
anonymous).
8. I've been told that the source these came from had just a few
other titles from that same time period (unconfirmed).
9. If anyone was trying to create a poster to commemorate and
capitalize on the 40th anniversary.....it certainly wouldn't be a
poster like this.......one that has (see points 1 through 6 above)
rolled yes....a red flag certainly.....but not unheard of
especially if it was a giveaway.
Freeman says there really were no giveaways back
then..........well, this I can't really explain...I also can't
explain why this particular one sheet (see below how it differs)
never seems to have surfaced before until recently. But if you
think about it.....how many times have we read in one of Bruce's
auctions "We have never seen this particular style one sheet
before!" or something to that effect. He doesn't say it
often.......but he has said it before.
And could it be a commercial poster from spencers, suncoast, etc?
Well anything is possible but again it just doesn't seem/feel like
a commercial poster.
again, here is a closeup of the one we have:
http://www.cinemasterpieces.com/aapics09/woodoct09.jpg
many coming to light all from the same source.....a bit of a red
flag yes....but totally plausible they were tucked away all these
years.
it is highly unlikely someone just all of a sudden decided to
bootleg this poster....one that is far from being in "high demand".
look at the bottom of this poster.......it has completely different
and more info. than pictures of other woodstock style c one sheets.
The two that heritage has sold are different.....one of them is
completely blank at the bottom (a rolled wilding poster), and the
other is folded...theater issued but with no nss info..... And
there are NO credits....blank on the bottom except for the
copyright line, the printer union logo, and where it says C style.
This one we are selling has full credits. It even gives credit to
magnum photos inc. and to the photographers on the bottom right.
What does that mean? Is that significant? is this a clue?
So where did the supposed bootlegger copy this poster from?? Did he
just create the credits??
We only have one by the way......and it is on consignment. I don't
expect it to sell....but we have been pleasantly surprised before
with this title so we agreed to give it a shot.
And rick please get your facts straight....we have NEVER had a
rolled cool hand luke one sheet. Never claimed to have one. We did
have 1000's of rolled posters from 68-72...but sadly cool hand luke
wasn't one of them....and we still have hundreds of obscure titles
from this find that are rolled near mint that no one would ever
want (well, no one except Rich H as we sent him several a few years
ago)...... We have sold several of these rolled one sheets to
dozens of mopo members......and not one of them has ever suggested
they weren't authentic. Only you. Someone who hasn't even seen one
in person.........someone who can't even tell a fake rolled Friday
the 13th from a real one.
so much petty jealousy in this hobby!!
again.....I am more than open to pulling it at the drop of a hat. I
just think that it looks and feels real so I'm going with my instinct.
If anyone else has anything to add.....just let me know!
----------------------------------------
Hey, Dave,
I'm not alone. Guys like Bruce were there, too. I think you're
single-handedly attempting to create your own "movie poster
reality" in insisting that these obvious reproductions are
authentic. It's far more plausible that they're repros than they
suddenly appeared out of nowhere after 40 years. It would be
different if we were only dealing with the Woodstock one sheets----
but we're not. It seems like over the past two or three years
you've had more explanations for the appearance of rolled one
sheets from the 60's---first Cool Hand Luke, then a dozen other
titles. If you proclaim their authentic long enough, people will
believe what you're saying is true---with one lame explanation
after another for their appearance out of nowhere. I can't believe
being the respected dealer that you are---the pride of eBay---that
you wouldn't wait until you were ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN of a poster's
authenticity--to offer it to your trusting clientele. Sure, you say
you'll refund every buyer's money if the posters are ultimately
found to be reproductions. But tell me, Dave, who's keeping track?
You're certainly keeping track of all the money your stuffing into
your pockets in the meantime, aren't you.......
----------------------------------------------------
David Lieberman
CineMasterpieces.com | 15721 N. Greenway Hayden Loop, Suite 105 --
Scottsdale, Az 85260
Vintage Original Movie Posters | 602 309 0500 | Office/Gallery Open
By Appt. Only.
Our Facebook Page
Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com
___________________________________________________________________
How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List
Send a message addressed to: lists...@listserv.american.edu
In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L
The author of this message is solely responsible for its content.
Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com
___________________________________________________________________
How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List
Send a message addressed to: lists...@listserv.american.edu
In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L
The author of this message is solely responsible for its content.
Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com
___________________________________________________________________
How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List
Send a message addressed to: lists...@listserv.american.edu
In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L
The author of this message is solely responsible for its content.
