At 09:00 AM 8/18/2008, you wrote:
Marsha:
>>
>> How would you define the type of patterns in the Intellectual Level?
>> Ron:
>> I would describe it as the act of exceeding the highest social level
>> patterns within a culture. To develop personal values
>> through experience using the spirit of the highest social level values
>> as a guide.
>>
>> Per RMP, the highest social patterns are the beginning of the lowest
>> intellectual patterns.
>
Marsha:
Been thinking about the way you described the patterns of the Intellectual
Level. Arête. Very heroic, but not very cutting edge. Sounds like you are
justifying your own decisions. (Those old Greeks were into little boys, how
honorable was that? Women were housebound and gagged. How wise was
that? ) It's as SOM as can be. Who is to attain all these wonderful
personal values if not a self (subject)?
Ron:
To begin with, that description was meant
generally speaking. To get specific and cite
some low-level static patterns that were and are
practiced as examples of social ills is missing the point of the statement
I made, I said simply that the HIGHEST social patterns which are social
ideals of conduct are the BASE of intellectual thought. Social ideals
are the basis of intellectual patterns.
Some virtues (a virtue is a character trait or
character quality valued as being good)
recognized in various Western cultures of the world include:
acceptance
altruism,
appreciation
attention, focus
autonomy
awareness
balance
beauty
benevolence
caring
charity
cleanliness
commitment
compassion
confidence
consciousness
consideration
contentment
cooperativeness
courage
courteousness
creativity
curiosity
dependability
discernment
empathy
encouragement
endurance
enthusiasm
equality
equanimity
equity
excellence
fairness
faith
faithfulness, fidelity
fitness
flexibility
foresight
forgiveness
fortitude, strength
freedom
friendliness
generosity
gentleness
happiness
health, health-minded
helpfulness
honesty
hospitality
humility
humor
imagination
impartiality
independence
integrity
intuition
inventiveness
joyfulness
justice
kindness
lovingness
loyalty
mercy
moderation
modesty
nonviolence
nurturing
openness
patience
peacefulness
perseverance
prudence
purposefulness
resilience
respectfulness
reverence
restraint
self-awareness
self-confidence
self-discipline
self-reliance
self-respect
sensitivity
sharing
sincerity
sympathy
tactfulness
temperance
thankfulness
thoughtfulness
tolerance
trustworthiness
truthfulness
understanding
unity
unselfishness
wisdom
Nowhere did I see pedophilia or wife beating as a social level ideal in
Greek culture or our own but, that is not to say that it did not and does
not happen. They are low-level social patterns which are closer to the
biological level of patterns.
Marsha:
Getting beyond materialism is the most important step. And that would be to
get beyond materialism using analytic inquiry. It would be nice to have
enlightenment en Toto, but I doubt that is going to happen any time soon.
Unless, of course, it occurs at our mass destruction.
I found Nagarjuna's logic impeccable. My understanding isn't nearly as
thorough as I'd like, but I knew from the first time I read it that here was
the key to putting subjects and objects in their subordinate place. And
unless the ILLUSION of a s/o world is understood deeply, there will be no
deep insight. The clinging and acquiring will continue.
I'm assuming you've read Nagarjuna. Have you?
Ron:
Yes I have, and I understand your point as provided above, It's just
when you make a statement like:
Intellectual Level: Thought (patterns) established and emerging from
analytic inquiry.
It sounds to me that like Bo, you define the
intellectual level as Analytic thought. Which I
disagree with, the whole purpose of Nagarjuna's tetra lemma
is to expose this fallacy through the use
analytics to deconstruct this method of thinking
which to an analytical mind has more success and
makes more sense then all the citations to the contrary, only through analytics
may you prove that analytics is not the only way to intellectualize.
thanks
Marsha
Bo is right to state SOM is an enemy, but not as
a thing-in-itself. What makes it the enemy is
that it is taken for the "way things are".
I came to this forum very suspicious of logic as
the answer to all questions. My objections have
softened some. But I'm not talking about any
kind of formal logic, I mean analytical inquiry
in the most general terms. As in analytical
skills (which may include formal logic, but may
not) for problem solving of all kinds: science,
art, and even basic curiosity or would that be philosophy.
Your list of nice sounding words are abstract
symbols alright. That would make them patterns,
but big deal. They can be social patterns
(goals) that your parents or the church drummed into your sweet little head.
Also, am not prejudice towards the Intellectual
Level. Frankly I like the Biological and the
Social levels. And let's face it, diamonds are a girls best friend.
Marsha
.
.
Shoot for the moon. Even if you miss, you'll land among the stars.........
.
.
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