All
Good job Rog. A few web definitions to base the static qualities of
socialism on.
> socialism
A social system based on equality and social justice, once linked with
common ownership of the means of production and distribution, but now
become more
fluid. Some writers consider that socialism is achieved when the major
part of the means of production is owned by the state. In communist
theory, socialism is the first stage on the road to full communism. It
differs from communism in that it is attached to ethical and democratic
values and because it allows both common and state ownership.
> A Dictionary of Geography, Oxford University Press, © Susan Mayhew 1997
socialism:
>
A social and economic system in which the means of production are
collectively owned and equality is given a high priority. There are
various forms of socialism
from Marxism to the social-democrat systems in Western Europe, but all
share a belief in the necessity for collective intervention in economic
affairs. See planned economy; state planning.
The Penguin Dictionary of Economics, © Graham Bannock, R. E. Baxter and
Evan Davis 1998
> socialism n.
1 political and economic theory advocating State ownership and control
of the means of production, distribution, and exchange. 2 social system
based on this.
> Derivative: socialist n. & adj. socialistic adj.[[French: related to social]]
>
The Pocket Oxford Dictionary of Current English, © OxfordUniversity
Press 1996
> Socialism:
(Doctrine, ovement, and Tradition in politics) — Socialism is a
watered-down version of collectivism, with the same ethical content of
subordination of the individual to the community but with less of a
totalitarian or authoritarian bent than communism. Interestingly, in
Eastern Europe they call their former political system socialism (not
communism) and the word Nazism is short for national socialism.
[References from capitalism, collectivism, dialectical materialism,
egalitarianism, and liberalism.]
http://www.ditext.com/encyc/s.html
Roger
> think various Scandinavian countries are great experiments to one extreme. The US
>is another extreme. OK?
3WD
It is a pity that Bo is no longer an active subscriber. It would be
interesting to hear his take on this issue vis a vis the MoQ.
Roger
> Are there any PURE examples of either extreme in practice? No
> probably not.
3WD
What many people do not understand about the US is that there are many
underlying "socialist" programs and practices integrated into this
supposedly PUREST of capitalistic societies.
For example, the largest land owner is the federal government (STATE)
followed closely by the aggregate of all state governments (STATE). The
management of these lands, which includes the majority of all the water
(lakes, rivers, underground water, coastal waters, and beachs) is by and
large centrally planned with production, distribution, and exchange of
goods and uses of these lands collectively shared. (Many have suggested
and continue to suggest damn poorly)
A majority of all the infrastructure (transportation, sewer and water
systems, airports, airways, utility generation and distribution) is also
for the most part owned, centrally planned, and/or highly regulated for
the collective GOOD.
To a slightly lesser extent so is the construction of the majority of
real property subject to every increasing layers of federal, state, and
local (STATE) planning, regulation, ordinances, and codes, ostensibly
for the collective GOOD.
Even the supposed out "free market" economy is subject to "central
planning" and manipulation by all the various "government" bodies.
What makes it all work, however, is that our democracy allows all these
systems to operate in parallel and the "freedom" of the market allows
it to make end runs around the slower moving "socialist" government institutions.
3WD
PS: Why do poor people of other countries literally risk death to get
here? Because with less effort than in their native lands, they can eat
better, have shelter almost always with electricity, potable water, and
indoor plumbing, educate their children, be better protected from those
who would subjegate them, and most importantly have the hope of
progressing to a higher quality existence.
Is it perfect? No. Are there some who's lives are worse than that? Of
course, but by and large the numbers are much smaller and the conditions
much better than any other country in the world. Being poor here is of
a much higher quality than any place I have ever seen or heard of. And
like Roger I speak from experience and have the pictures to prove it.
Nana Nana poo poo, my poor are better than your's are! :-)
PPS: Platt, I see you are also intrigued by the economics of a "free"
energy lunch. It incredible the naivety that exists at all levels. I
recently helped a friend in the alternative energy business apply for a
federal grant which requested proposals for prototypes for a "zero
energy" home. I asked him if he thought we might get funding to do
biblical research on the exact location of the Garden of Eden :-)
MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org
Mail Archive - http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/
MD Queries - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To unsubscribe from moq_discuss follow the instructions at:
http://www.moq.org/md/subscribe.html
