If message sequence is absolutely critical then we are not really talking about messages are we....... we are talking about records ...... in a file. So why not just file transfer the stuff. Easy. We've been doing it for years and we never get records out of sequence.
And if MQ's assured delivery is important then there are file transfer products around that use MQ as the transport protocol. Take a look at CommerceQuest's Data Integrator for example. mqm --- Robert Broderick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > See that's what I like about management. They > complain about paying too much > for their technical people. Are constantly trying to > hire cheap labor and > when they are slapped in the face with facts they > completely ignore anybody > around them with a clue as to what is going on and > make a decision in a > vacuum!!! Wonderful. I guess IBM should hire your > managers to set policy > from now on because THEY ARE OBVIOUSLY RIGHT!! > > hahahahahaha > bobbee > > PS All hands abandon ship!!!! > > > > > > > > >From: Glen Larson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Reply-To: MQSeries List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >Subject: Re: messages out of order > >Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 14:15:15 -0600 > > > >sounds like the pointy hair boss, clueless > decisions based on the premise > >of: "thats the way we've always done it." > > > >Glen Larson > >Zurich North America > > > > > >"Anderson, Lizette T. (RyTull)" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >@AKH-Wien.AC.AT> on 02/14/2003 01:41:44 PM > > > >Please respond to MQSeries List > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > >Sent by: MQSeries List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >cc: > > > >Subject: Re: messages out of order > > > > > >Great idea, but management agrees with using the > DLQ. Happy trails Bobbee. > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: Stefan Sievert > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > >Sent: Friday, February 14, 2003 12:03 PM > >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >Subject: Re: messages out of order > > > > > >I agree with all that was said about why it's a bad > idea to use the DLQ > >from > >within ANY applciation. As a systems administrator > I wouldn't even argue > >with any developer about that, but instead revoke > access to the DLQ from > >any > >userID other than the started task or mqm user. > Filling up the dead letter > >queue may impact ALL other applciations that > receive messages from remote > >locations through the same channel. They will come > after the admin first if > >anything goes south... > > > >There really is NO reasonable argument to use it > for anything else but what > >it's meant to be used for, that's my 2 cents. > > > >Happy Valentine's to everybody and a great holiday > weekend! > >Stefan > > > > > > > > >From: "Miller, Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > >Reply-To: MQSeries List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > >Subject: Re: messages out of order > > >Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 09:52:07 -0800 > > > > > >Until the dead letter queue fills, in which case, > your programmers should > > >have their resumes ready. > > > > > >There's an irresistble urge to rely on MQ to > deliver messages in > >sequence. > > >Many try and get away with it for awhile. > However, the restrictions are > >so > > >broad that sooner or later one of them will be > violated and you will be > > >chasing your tail trying to figure out what went > wrong with an > >application > > >that has been working for years. On the other > hand, there are several > >ways > > >to definitively assure sequential order and they > are not difficult. IMHO, > > >learn to do it right! So, my advice is: > > > > > > Use message grouping or message > identification techniques to > > >control sequential retrieval. > > > > > >BTW, can't you defeat your programmers argument > by making the local queue > > >as big as the DLQ? > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Anderson, Lizette T. (RyTull) > > >[SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > > > Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2003 1:59 PM > > > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Subject: Re: messages out of order > > > > > > > > Funny. > > > > > > > > I made another attempt to have the programmers > change it to go to a > > >local > > > > queue instead of the dead letter queue. The > reason they use the dead > > >letter > > > > queue is because they use FIFO. If they send > it to a local queue and > >it > > > > fills, they will not be able to retrieve the > messages in order since > > >some > > > > would be on the dead letter queue. Therefore, > they decided to > >retrieve > > >all > > > > the messages from the dead letter queue. > > > > > > > > How is everyone else handling this? > > > > ----Original Message----- > > > > From: Robert Broderick > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > > > Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 6:24 PM > > > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Subject: Re: messages out of order > > > > > > > > > > > > As a funny note. I was viewing this message > through HOTMAIL. With ad's > > >at > > > > the top browser window. As I was reading it an > ad for MIB II came up. > > >Talk > > > > about black suites and dark glasses!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >From: "Anderson, Lizette T. (RyTull)" > > ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > >Reply-To: MQSeries List > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > >Subject: Re: messages out of order > > > > >Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 15:18:44 -0600 > > > > > > > > > >Tell me about it. They are usually here > until 5:00. Have the MQ > >guys > > >with > > > > >the dark suits and glasses drop over. > > > > > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > > > > >From: Robert Broderick > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > > > >Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 1:59 PM > > > > >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > >Subject: Re: messages out of order > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Basic rules for MQ-ing. APPLICATIONS DO NOT > PUT MESSAGES ON THE > > >DLQ!!!!!! > > > > >Or > > > > >the MQ guys with the dark suits and glasses > come around in the middle > > >of > > > > >the > > > > >night and break your fingers!!! > > > > > > > > > >BAD Design!!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > >bobbee > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >From: "Anderson, Lizette T. (RyTull)" > > ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > >Reply-To: MQSeries List > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > >Subject: Re: messages out of order > > > > > >Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 10:41:16 -0600 > > > > > > > > > > > >We have told apps this for years. The > previous administrator > >thought > > > > >this > > > > > >was a good idea and we have had no luck in > convincing otherwise. > > > > > > > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > > > > > >From: mqm mqm [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > > > > >Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 7:27 AM > > > > > >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > >Subject: Re: messages out of order > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Lysette, > > > > > > > > > > > >Why are the messages delivered to the DLQ > only to be > > > > > >extracted and delivered to the > RT.PRD.ORDFBREC.INB > > > > > >queue ? > > > > > > > > > > > >Seems like an odd use of the DLQ. > > > > > > > > > > > >mqm > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >--- "Anderson, Lizette T. (RyTull)" > > > > > ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > Thanks for the information. Our > applications > > > > > > > programmers are of course > > > > > > > saying this is not true. They insists > this is an MQ > > > > > > > problem so I have been > > > > > > > looking through the manuals to prove it > is not. > > > > > > > Does anyone have any idea > > > > > > > where I can find this information? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > From: Miller, Dennis > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 3:51 PM > > > > > > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > Subject: Re: messages out of order > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For MQ to always deliver messages in the > same > > > > > > > sequence they were sent, one > > > > > > > of the restrictions is that you not have > a DLQ. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > From: Anderson, Lizette T. (RyTull) > > > > > > > [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 12:18 > PM > > > > > > > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: messages out of > order > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Its on the server. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > From: Hill, Dave > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 2:11 > PM > > > > > > > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: messages out of order > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ok. Now the picture is getting more > clear. We > > > > > > > corrected our problem by > > > > > > > > delaying the application on the > receiving end as > > > > > > > well as setting the > > > > > > > channel > > > > > > > > to stay open for a longer time. I am > assuming that > > > > > > > this DLQ is not on a > > > > > > > > mainframe. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > From: Anderson, Lizette T. (RyTull) > > > > > > > > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 2:57 > PM > > > > > > > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: messages out of order > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Our remote queue is the dead letter > queue. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > From: Hill, Dave > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 1:19 > PM > > > > > > > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: messages out of order > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You could be getting data locks ( > resource > > > > > > > locking ) that is not allowing > > > > > > > > certain records from being "extracted" > in order. > > > > > > > We had a problem like > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > and it was a timing problem in a > database. > > > > > > > > One question: > > > > > > > > What is the dead letter queues > process? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > From: Anderson, Lizette T. (RyTull) > > > > > > > > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 2:07 > PM > > > > > > > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: messages out of order > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I need to add. The mainframe is > running OS/390 > > > > > > > communicating with a > > > > > > > > Windows 2000 server both running > MQSeries 5.2. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > > From: Anderson, Lizette T. > (RyTull) > > > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 > 1:04 PM > > > > > > > > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > > Subject: messages out of order > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Is it possible for messages to be > delivered out > > > > > > > of order? Please read > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > following from our application > programmer: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We had a problem last night. A > couple of our MQ > > > > > > > message were processed > > > > > > > > > out of order. The MQ messages are > for Score > > > > > > > Order Entry feedback from > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > mainframe. The queue name is > > > > > > > RT.PRD.ORDFBREC.INB. The sequence of > > > > > > > > > process the messages take to reach > the queue > > > > > > > are: > > > > > > > > > -The mainframe writes records to an > Adabase file > > > > > > > storing MQ information, > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > Natural program performs this > process. > > > > > > > > > -The mainframe then reads records > from this > > > > > > > Adabase file and generates > > > > > > > MQ > > > > > > > > > messages, a Cobol program performs > this process. > > > > > > > > > -The MQ messages are delivered to > the dead > > > > > > > letter queue.> > > > > > > > > > -The message are extracted from the > dead letter > > > > > > > queue and delivered to > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > RT.PRD.ORDFBREC.INB queue. > > > > > > > > > -A C program process the records > from this > > > > > > > queue. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From looking at the debug log we > know the MQ > > > > > > > messages were process out > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > sequence. The only way they could > be processed > > > > > > > out of sequence is if > > > > > > > they > > > > > > > > > were added to the > RT.PRD.ORDFBREC.INB queue in > > > > > > > the wrong order. The > > > > > > > > > mainframe process and records in the > Adabase > > > > > > > file look to be in order. > > > > > > > > > So, the records should have been > added to the > > > > > > > dead letter queue > > > > > > > correctly. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Legal Disclaimer: The information > contained in > > > > > > > this communication may > > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > confidential, is intended only for the > use of the > > > > > > > recipient named above, > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > may be legally privileged. 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