I agree with Jeff. We are a national community (in some ways, at least), and we owe it to the dancers we serve to make our spaces safe for everybody. Maybe, if a newcomer is making people uncomfortable, talking to that newcomer might change his behavior. But that's not your situation. If Josh has been harassing and sometimes hurting women for more than five years, despite being talked to consistently by many dance organizers, then assuming that the same talking-to is going to have any effect just doesn't make much sense.
I disagree with Orin's approach. No matter how tight you make a written contract, you won't be able to include every single possibly bad behavior. And some behaviors (like leering) are too hard to define with any precision. Consulting a lawyer might be good advice, but keep in mind that you always have the right to expel somebody from your dance. People get expelled from "public" events that require an admission fee all the time for breaking norms; look at any time somebody jumps on the field during a baseball game, or try rushing the stage at a concert, etc. Those events are just as public as a contra dance (open to everybody who pays the price of admission). I understand that some people on this list likely have problems with naming particular problem dancers. I think it's our duty to do so. We owe it to dancers to put on a safe event, and trying to hide names of people who make our dances unsafe detracts from that goal. On Wed, Apr 23, 2014 at 9:39 AM, Orin Nisenson <[email protected]> wrote: > I strongly suggest that you consult a lawyer to find out what your options > are and to make sure you protect yourself. I would think the law is > different for a public dance compared to a private dance/club. > > I also suggest that you do a written contract with him so that there is no > confusion. I once convinced him to stop a particular behavior. The next > week he was doing it again. When I reminded him of our conversation the > week before he responded "oh, that was for last weeks dance" > > Orin > > > > > > > > Oy ... >> >> First thanks to all for their support and information , both on this list >> and off-list .. I will be following up independently with those that >> e-mailed me in the next few days . >> >> Yes it is the same person that caused so much trouble up in the Boston >> area... >> We are currently working on outreach to any dancers effected ( At least >> those that we can contact and are willing to talk to us about this >> sensitive issue) >> >> So now we are on the horns of an ethical dilemma , or many different but >> related ones .. :-( >> >> Should this person get the same treatment that someone with no history of >> harassing behavior should reasonably expect to receive ? >> Should he be "talked to" about his actions and "given a chance to change" >> ? >> Should a "stepped" ban be considered ? ( Say ban for two months now , and >> "probation" after ? ) >> Should any consideration be given to our not having had a clearly written >> and posted set of "rules" ? >> >> Btw we are working on a "policy" now and I have read every dance >> organization policy on the subject that I can find . I suspect that the >> object of such rules or policy should be to make the dancers comfortable ( >> new and old ) and provide recourse to the dance community if someone >> violates the folkways of the community .. It might be better to encourage >> communication within the more experienced dancers in the community and get >> them to let the new dancers know through words and deeds what is acceptable >> , what is not and how to tell the difference.. >> >> Thoughts ? >> >> Rgds Q >> >> Ps Perry ( our american dance chair ) will be at NEFFA this weekend , If >> anyone has any personal experiences about this problem please let him know. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> While there are things to be said for having a code of conduct (and my >>> organization does have one), >>> having one in place is neither necessary nor sufficient for dealing with >>> this person. >>> >>> Is it possible to have a comforting female organizer get in touch with >>> some of the "disappeared" women >>> and discuss what's happened with them? This may help assure them that >>> the organization cares >>> about their comfort and safety and that of the dancers who continue, and >>> will also help to establish >>> how far over the boundaries his behaviors have gone, which might also >>> help you to decide whether >>> the guy needs a talking to and careful watching with banning in reserve, >>> or just immediate banning. >>> (Or whether the women not coming back to contra is all an unfortunate >>> coincidence.) >>> >>> -- Alan >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On 4/21/2014 1:06 PM, Quintin Aspin wrote: >>> >>>> Down here in Baltimore we are having a problem with a dancer who >>>> seems to be harassing young ladies , He seems particularly fond of >>>> monopolizing their dances if he can , then moves on to sending >>>> e-mails and giving small gifts ... Shortly there after these >>>> unfortunately targeted newcomers seem to stop coming to the dance ... >>>> They do not complain to anyone in charge , they just disappear from >>>> the dance community .. >>>> >>>> It is a situation that I , as president of BFMS , only recently >>>> became aware of , but in retrospect it seems to have been happening >>>> to some extent since he moved down from the Boston area . >>>> If this is a "new" behavior and he is amenable to change I will >>>> either talk to him , or suggest the American dance chair has a few >>>> words with him ... But if , as I now suspect , he was doing this same >>>> behaviors in the Boston area perhaps firmer action might be needed . >>>> >>>> There was , in fact , a discussion over on the callers list about a >>>> dancer in the Boston area that seems eerily reminiscent of the >>>> situation here .. >>>> >>>> If any of the Boston area dance folks know of whom I speak , or if he >>>> was banned from any dances up there it would be enormously helpful if >>>> you could send me an e-mail with just the first name of the gent in >>>> question .... >>>> >>>> You can send it to my regular e-mail ( the one I am subscribed to >>>> this list ) or to be at >>>> President ( at ) bfms.org ... >>>> >>>> A thousand thanks from me and from a lot of dancers who hopefully >>>> will not have to find out first hand about which they should be >>>> thankful ... >>>> >>>> Rgds Quintin >>>> >>>> Ps I have looked at all the contra dance "codes of conduct" I can >>>> find and we are having a getting to get one set up here .... >>>> Hopefully not shutting the gate after the horse ... etc.. >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Organizers mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/organizers >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Organizers mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/organizers >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Organizers mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/organizers >> > > > -- > U.S. Virgin Islands Snow Plowing Service. > Serving St. Croix, St. Thomas & St. John. > Fast reliable service, driveways & parking lots / no job > too small or large > > _______________________________________________ > Organizers mailing list > [email protected] > http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/organizers > -- David Casserly (cell) 781 258-2761
