> > If you aren’t buying stuff off ebay and amazon (or using github, but they’re > actively working on fixing that) v6-only is quite feasible today. >
Your customers are paying for internet access. This implies the *entire* internet. If your customers can’t get to Amazon, eBay, Github, or a myriad of other sites ( a *lot* of B2B sites are v4-only, including Salesforce), you’re not going to have many customers. As long as there are destinations on the internet that aren’t available over IPv6, there will be a need for IPv4 connectivity. While I expect IPv6 adoption to continue to rise, I don’t think we’ll ever see an IPv6-only internet. ISPs may stop allocating v4 to eyeball customers - many (most US?) mobile carriers are doing this already - but that long tail… we may never get to the Thagomizer. -C > From: Josh Luthman <[email protected]> > Sent: Monday, December 1, 2025 2:03 PM > To: Gary Sparkes <[email protected]> > Cc: North American Network Operators Group <[email protected]>; Mu > <[email protected]>; Aaron C. de Bruyn <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: IPv4 Pricing > > V4 only works today? You're going to exclude at the very least Ebay and > Amazon? Seriously? > > On Mon, Dec 1, 2025 at 1:13 PM Gary Sparkes > <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: > I'll add this too - > > We don't even bother asking ISPs for v6 support, we just assume if it's not > there it won't happen. > > There is no point in asking. It's 2025, either they're deploying it or not. > > If they don't have it, we work around it, usually by allocating space to a > customer and setting up a portal/tunnel endpoint geographically close to them > and handling it that way. > > We also encourage customers to move off said ISP - I have moved several of my > customers to T-Mobile wireless internet off of local ISPs because of this > issue, and it works 'good enough'. > > Not having v6 support these days speaks to laughable incompetence as a > network operator, or extensive legacy infrastructure. Especially since it's > now possible to run v6 only without any v4 translation tech and still have > working end-user 'internet' > > -----Original Message----- > From: Josh Luthman via NANOG > <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> > Sent: Monday, December 1, 2025 10:56 AM > To: Mu <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> > Cc: North American Network Operators Group > <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>; Aaron C. de Bruyn > <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>; Josh Luthman > <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> > Subject: Re: IPv4 Pricing > > I need a business reason to make the business do IPv6. I do not need a > technical reason. This thread has shown there is no business use case for > global IPv6. > > I also want to throw this out there: Metronet residential (last I heard 7th > largest fiber provider in the US, this was well before the Tmobile > acquisition) doesn't even give out public IPs. They do IPv4 only CGNAT. > You can get a /32 static at $15/mo (in some areas). > > On Mon, Dec 1, 2025 at 10:51 AM Mu <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: > >> the reason "you still need v4 for a working Internet" is because >> people like you keep saying crap like "v6 is a joke". >> thanks for that! >> >> On Monday, December 1st, 2025 at 10:08 AM, Josh Luthman via NANOG < >> [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >> >>> Aaron, >>> >>> As a small operator I would ask why you need a /29 the first place. >> Second >>> why don't you just get your own ASN? >>> >>> Are you willing to pay more to support v6? Or do you think the ISP >>> should add that service for free? >>> >>> Imo v6 is a joke because you still need v4 for a working Internet. I >>> understand there are benefits but this is 2025 and you can't get by >> without >>> v4. >>> >>> On Mon, Dec 1, 2025, 10:03 AM Aaron C. de Bruyn via NANOG < >>> [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>> >>>> I wish they were dropping in my area. >>>> I called my backwoods ISP last week (they are a monopoly with >>>> ~4,000 >> fiber >>>> customers) to go from a single static at my office to a /29 and >>>> they >> said >>>> "It's $300/mo". >>>> I asked why it was so high and they said "My boss doesn't like >> configuring >>>> them, so he set the price really high". >>>> Then I asked when IPv6 would be available and got the same answer >>>> I got back in 2019: "My boss said he was thinking about looking >>>> into it next year". >>>> >>>> -A >>>> >>>> On Sun, Nov 30, 2025 at 6:12 PM Tom Mitchell via NANOG < >>>> [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> v4 addresses have been dropping rapidly. They were as high as >>>>> $65 >> last >>>>> year. Now, there are offers for $11. Average market price now is >>>>> in >> the >>>>> mid-$20's. All the NA ISPs have been selling much of their inventory. >>>>> Why >>>>> not. >>>>> >>>>> - Tom >>>>> >>>>> On Sun, Nov 30, 2025 at 11:23 AM Mike Hammett via NANOG < >>>>> [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> What are you using for guides for IPv4 pricing? There are a >>>>>> bunch >> of >>>>>> undated blogs, which don't mean much if there's no date. >>>>>> >>>>>> Hilco's blog says somewhere around $27 for a /22 to /24: >>>>>> https://www.ipv4.global/reports/october-2025/ >>>>>> but then fast forward a month on their auction page and it's >>>>>> down >> to >>>>>> $22: >>>>>> https://auctions.ipv4.global/prior-sales >>>>>> >>>>>> These guys stopped updating in June: >>>>>> https://ipv4market.eu/ipv4-market-average-sale-prices-2025/ >>>>>> >>>>>> ----- >>>>>> Mike Hammett >>>>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com >>>>>> >>>>>> Midwest-IX >>>>>> http://www.midwest-ix.com >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> NANOG mailing list >>>> >>>> >> https://lists.nanog.org/archives/list/[email protected]/message/UW >> JDG6X3FH73ELJRSEX4O4BIK7CS7EAQ/ >>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> NANOG mailing list >>>> >>>> >> https://lists.nanog.org/archives/list/[email protected]/message/2D >> P5TTAHK4CN2HXHNLLYN225JNLQYJIO/ >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> NANOG mailing list >>>> >>>> >> https://lists.nanog.org/archives/list/[email protected]/message/5D >> 2RDOWMRXX4634VKZO33X4YAR7RYMDK/ >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> NANOG mailing list >>> >> https://lists.nanog.org/archives/list/[email protected]/message/XW >> AJ5B7ZIBEPUGWIUKS42N3AM76AMWRV/ >> > _______________________________________________ > NANOG mailing list > https://lists.nanog.org/archives/list/[email protected]/message/3HDQ4IOL7WVYZUUSRW2SXPKGP5JXZJHS/ > _______________________________________________ > NANOG mailing list > https://lists.nanog.org/archives/list/[email protected]/message/3OLDSHVPHWL2QRLURB4X5DNB3NUQUQTD/ _______________________________________________ NANOG mailing list https://lists.nanog.org/archives/list/[email protected]/message/GYKRBKGUBH5HXQJJFQRAENWOHZZIEUUC/
