That's what the minimal CGNAT deployment / etc that I described resolves. Going full v6-first reduces total hardware required and hardware-related expenses, as well as address-related expenses too......
Given traffic load, a minimal-but-there v4 footprint is all that's really needed these days for US IPv4 eyeball networks. Soon, that minimal v4 won't even be needed, but it obviously is today. But each day we get closer. I could easily squash all my customer base to a single /24 because of v6 load statistics without batting an eye, and several could even go without translation tech at all. -----Original Message----- From: Chris Woodfield via NANOG <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, December 1, 2025 5:35 PM To: North American Network Operators Group <[email protected]> Cc: Chris Woodfield <[email protected]> Subject: Re: IPv4 Pricing > > If you aren’t buying stuff off ebay and amazon (or using github, but they’re > actively working on fixing that) v6-only is quite feasible today. > Your customers are paying for internet access. This implies the *entire* internet. If your customers can’t get to Amazon, eBay, Github, or a myriad of other sites ( a *lot* of B2B sites are v4-only, including Salesforce), you’re not going to have many customers. As long as there are destinations on the internet that aren’t available over IPv6, there will be a need for IPv4 connectivity. While I expect IPv6 adoption to continue to rise, I don’t think we’ll ever see an IPv6-only internet. ISPs may stop allocating v4 to eyeball customers - many (most US?) mobile carriers are doing this already - but that long tail… we may never get to the Thagomizer. -C > From: Josh Luthman <[email protected]> > Sent: Monday, December 1, 2025 2:03 PM > To: Gary Sparkes <[email protected]> > Cc: North American Network Operators Group <[email protected]>; Mu > <[email protected]>; Aaron C. de Bruyn <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: IPv4 Pricing > > V4 only works today? You're going to exclude at the very least Ebay and > Amazon? Seriously? > > On Mon, Dec 1, 2025 at 1:13 PM Gary Sparkes > <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: > I'll add this too - > > We don't even bother asking ISPs for v6 support, we just assume if it's not > there it won't happen. > > There is no point in asking. It's 2025, either they're deploying it or not. > > If they don't have it, we work around it, usually by allocating space to a > customer and setting up a portal/tunnel endpoint geographically close to them > and handling it that way. > > We also encourage customers to move off said ISP - I have moved several of my > customers to T-Mobile wireless internet off of local ISPs because of this > issue, and it works 'good enough'. > > Not having v6 support these days speaks to laughable incompetence as a > network operator, or extensive legacy infrastructure. Especially since it's > now possible to run v6 only without any v4 translation tech and still have > working end-user 'internet' > > -----Original Message----- > From: Josh Luthman via NANOG > <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> > Sent: Monday, December 1, 2025 10:56 AM > To: Mu <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> > Cc: North American Network Operators Group > <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>; Aaron C. de > Bruyn <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>; Josh Luthman > <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> > Subject: Re: IPv4 Pricing > > I need a business reason to make the business do IPv6. I do not need a > technical reason. This thread has shown there is no business use case for > global IPv6. > > I also want to throw this out there: Metronet residential (last I > heard 7th largest fiber provider in the US, this was well before the > Tmobile > acquisition) doesn't even give out public IPs. They do IPv4 only CGNAT. > You can get a /32 static at $15/mo (in some areas). > > On Mon, Dec 1, 2025 at 10:51 AM Mu <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: > >> the reason "you still need v4 for a working Internet" is because >> people like you keep saying crap like "v6 is a joke". >> thanks for that! >> >> On Monday, December 1st, 2025 at 10:08 AM, Josh Luthman via NANOG < >> [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >> >>> Aaron, >>> >>> As a small operator I would ask why you need a /29 the first place. >> Second >>> why don't you just get your own ASN? >>> >>> Are you willing to pay more to support v6? Or do you think the ISP >>> should add that service for free? >>> >>> Imo v6 is a joke because you still need v4 for a working Internet. I >>> understand there are benefits but this is 2025 and you can't get by >> without >>> v4. >>> >>> On Mon, Dec 1, 2025, 10:03 AM Aaron C. de Bruyn via NANOG < >>> [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>> >>>> I wish they were dropping in my area. >>>> I called my backwoods ISP last week (they are a monopoly with >>>> ~4,000 >> fiber >>>> customers) to go from a single static at my office to a /29 and >>>> they >> said >>>> "It's $300/mo". >>>> I asked why it was so high and they said "My boss doesn't like >> configuring >>>> them, so he set the price really high". >>>> Then I asked when IPv6 would be available and got the same answer I >>>> got back in 2019: "My boss said he was thinking about looking into >>>> it next year". >>>> >>>> -A >>>> >>>> On Sun, Nov 30, 2025 at 6:12 PM Tom Mitchell via NANOG < >>>> [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> v4 addresses have been dropping rapidly. They were as high as >>>>> $65 >> last >>>>> year. Now, there are offers for $11. Average market price now is >>>>> in >> the >>>>> mid-$20's. All the NA ISPs have been selling much of their inventory. >>>>> Why >>>>> not. >>>>> >>>>> - Tom >>>>> >>>>> On Sun, Nov 30, 2025 at 11:23 AM Mike Hammett via NANOG < >>>>> [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> What are you using for guides for IPv4 pricing? There are a bunch >> of >>>>>> undated blogs, which don't mean much if there's no date. >>>>>> >>>>>> Hilco's blog says somewhere around $27 for a /22 to /24: >>>>>> https://www.ipv4.global/reports/october-2025/ >>>>>> but then fast forward a month on their auction page and it's down >> to >>>>>> $22: >>>>>> https://auctions.ipv4.global/prior-sales >>>>>> >>>>>> These guys stopped updating in June: >>>>>> https://ipv4market.eu/ipv4-market-average-sale-prices-2025/ >>>>>> >>>>>> ----- >>>>>> Mike Hammett >>>>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com >>>>>> >>>>>> Midwest-IX >>>>>> http://www.midwest-ix.com >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> NANOG mailing list >>>> >>>> >> https://lists.nanog.org/archives/list/[email protected]/message/U >> W >> JDG6X3FH73ELJRSEX4O4BIK7CS7EAQ/ >>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> NANOG mailing list >>>> >>>> >> https://lists.nanog.org/archives/list/[email protected]/message/2 >> D >> P5TTAHK4CN2HXHNLLYN225JNLQYJIO/ >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> NANOG mailing list >>>> >>>> >> https://lists.nanog.org/archives/list/[email protected]/message/5 >> D >> 2RDOWMRXX4634VKZO33X4YAR7RYMDK/ >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> NANOG mailing list >>> >> https://lists.nanog.org/archives/list/[email protected]/message/X >> W >> AJ5B7ZIBEPUGWIUKS42N3AM76AMWRV/ >> > _______________________________________________ > NANOG mailing list > https://lists.nanog.org/archives/list/[email protected]/message/3H > DQ4IOL7WVYZUUSRW2SXPKGP5JXZJHS/ > _______________________________________________ > NANOG mailing list > https://lists.nanog.org/archives/list/[email protected]/message/3O > LDSHVPHWL2QRLURB4X5DNB3NUQUQTD/ _______________________________________________ NANOG mailing list https://lists.nanog.org/archives/list/[email protected]/message/GYKRBKGUBH5HXQJJFQRAENWOHZZIEUUC/ _______________________________________________ NANOG mailing list https://lists.nanog.org/archives/list/[email protected]/message/FAIH4YQMRUMCGMFEGQTIM2IZUXOMQYI4/
