Dominic Williams, my man.On Thu, Dec 02, 2004 at 05:06:28PM +0100, Dominic Williams wrote: > > Hi Alistair, > > Thanks for your interesting thoughts. After meditating > upon them, I think that either you are wrong, or you > are so right that I am deluding myself! > > I we disagree, it may only be on the definition of the > word "manipulation", however. > > > When I was in my 20s and a hardware engineer, it was > > explained to me many times by many people that > > salesmanship and personal manipulation goes on all > > day long in all aspects of our lives, from dating, > > holding a marriage together, to getting a job and > > getting a raise, to convincing other people that our > > ideas are sound or better. > > I agree that all these are a form of salesmanship. I > don't agree that that requires manipulation, in the > sense of "influence by deceipt". > > > As engineers, we find this uncomfortable and also > > unfamiliar: "I didn't sign up for this sales stuff." > > (I have said the same myself on many occasions). > > Well, I have not ever said or thought that. I have > always been happy to participate in sales work. I have > done many demos, participated in trade shows, seminars, > I even wear a tie on many occasions. I /like/ working > closely with current or potential customers. > > I am shy and self-conscious, and uncomfortable about > meeting people. However, I am intellectually > comfortable with the idea, and I would therefore like > to get better at it and be more relaxed. > > I am intellectually uncomfortable about lying and > deceipt. I don't want to learn to do it. In fact I have > plenty of work learn to avoid unintentional > misunderstandings, which I do care about. > > > The word "should" or "shouldn't" implies "even the > > world tells me that my belief about it is false, I > > hang onto it anyway." Which is the same as saying, "I > > have this sneaky suspicion (or I actually know) that > > I am wrong, but I don't want to face it yet." > > I believe honest salesmanship is possible in the areas > like the ones you mention, because I have seen it > work. I have never, however, been an actual business > salesman, so I was being cautious about whether my > personal experience can be extrapolated to that area. > > > We could all be more effective engineers if we > > mastered the sales stuff and recognized that we and > > when we manipulate people ... and yet we don't go > > through the discomfort and unfamiliarity to learn it. > > We could all be more effective engineers, husbands, > fathers or whatever if we mastered open, honest, > communication. I don't think deceipt would get me > anywhere I want to go. > > > So which is it that you are not interested in: > > making more money, being more effective, or having > > more impact with your ideas? > > I am interested in all of those, as long as I can look > back on how I achieved them without feeling ashamed. > > Regards, > > Dominic Williams > http://www.dominicwilliams.net > > ---- > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > ad-free courtesy of objectmentor.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > -- Sean Gilbertson IT Systems/Software Developer To Post a message, send it to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ad-free courtesy of objectmentor.com Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/extremeprogramming/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
