Re-, > that section 3.3. of RFC 8340 also talks about considering an > appendix if diagrams can't be split into smaller chunks.
:-) I think we already had this discussion on the list and even considered that there is no need to include the full long tree when adequate subtrees were included to help readers walkthrough a model. The reason was that subtrees are good enough to " to explain things.". As a contributor, because I fully agree: " The whole point about tree diagrams is that they should help to explain things" I used to exclusively include only subtrees in the specs with long trees (L2NM, L3NM, etc.) with this note: "The full tree diagram of the module can be generated using the "pyang" tool [PYANG]. That tree is not included here because it is too long (Section 3.3 of [RFC8340]). Instead, subtrees are provided for the reader's convenience." Now as an Editor of the bis, I'm hearing that the WG is not comfortable with leaving authors interpreting RFC8340, but a full tree is still needed (in an appendix, though). Cheers, Med > -----Message d'origine----- > De : Jürgen Schönwälder <[email protected]> > Envoyé : mardi 3 décembre 2024 09:59 > À : BOUCADAIR Mohamed INNOV/NET <[email protected]> > Cc : Lou Berger <[email protected]>; Kent Watsen > ([email protected]) <[email protected]>; [email protected] > Objet : Re: [netmod] Re: I-D Action: draft-ietf-netmod- > rfc8407bis-21.txt > > > On Tue, Dec 03, 2024 at 08:37:50AM +0000, > [email protected] wrote: > > Hi Jürgen, > > > > The only change made vs 8407 is that long trees goes to an > appendix, not main document. > > The whole point about tree diagrams is that they should help to > explain things. See RFC 8340 section 3.3 for details, pointing to > it should be sufficient, there is no need to add anything. Note > that section 3.3. of RFC 8340 also talks about considering an > appendix if diagrams can't be split into smaller chunks. > > > That's reflect existing practices, saves authors time > (including late comments in IESG reviews about dry and long > trees), etc. > > > > On the "page" point, please note that 8340 reasons with that > unit as > > well :-) > > > " As tree diagrams are intended to provide a simplified > > view of a module, diagrams longer than a page should > generally be > > avoided." > > Look into RFC 8340 and you will note that the back then official > .txt versions still had pagination... As always, it is difficult > to predict the future. But nowadays we know that pagination is a > not a reliable metric anymore. > > /js > > > Thank you. > > > > Cheers, > > Med > > > > > -----Message d'origine----- > > > De : Jürgen Schönwälder > <[email protected]> > > > Envoyé : mardi 3 décembre 2024 08:51 À : Lou Berger > > > <[email protected]> Cc : BOUCADAIR Mohamed INNOV/NET > > > <[email protected]>; Kent Watsen > ([email protected]) > > > <[email protected]>; [email protected] Objet : Re: [netmod] > Re: I-D > > > Action: draft-ietf-netmod- rfc8407bis-21.txt > > > > > > > > > I believe there is nothing to change, RFC 8407 got it > straight: > > > > > > 3.4. Tree Diagrams > > > > > > YANG tree diagrams provide a concise representation of a > YANG > > > module > > > and SHOULD be included to help readers understand YANG > module > > > structure. Guidelines on tree diagrams can be found in > Section 3 > > > of > > > [RFC8340]. > > > > > > It is somewhat pointless to talk about pages on modern RFC > formats > > > that have no pages or varying page sizes and I think it is > best to > > > leave the guidance on the use of tree diagrams to RFC8340. > (There is > > > also no need to add another SHOULD that RFC > > > 8340 should be consulted - are we approaching the point where > every > > > sentence has to have a capitalized verb?) I vote for no > change of > > > the RFC 8407 text here. > > > > > > /js > > > > > > On Mon, Dec 02, 2024 at 06:12:08PM -0500, Lou Berger wrote: > > > > Med, > > > > > > > > Thanks for the update, you now have: > > > > > > > > 3.4. Tree Diagrams > > > > > > > > YANG tree diagrams provide a concise representation of a > > > YANG module > > > > and SHOULD be included to help readers understand YANG > > > module > > > > structure. Guidelines on tree diagrams can be found in > > > Section 3 of > > > > [RFC8340]. Tree diagrams longer than one page SHOULD be > > > included in > > > > an appendix, i.e., not in the main body of the document. > > > > > > > > > > > > How about: > > > > > > > > 3.4. Tree Diagrams > > > > > > > > YANG tree diagrams provide a concise representation of a > > > YANG module > > > > and SHOULD be included to help readers understand YANG > > > module > > > > structure. Guidelines on tree diagrams can be found in > > > Section 3 of > > > > [RFC8340] and SHOULD be followed. > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > Lou > > > > > > > > On 11/14/2024 2:56 AM, [email protected] wrote: > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > > > > > This version implements the changes discussed in Dublin, > > > especially to address the comments about long trees (Lou) and > better > > > organize the commentary text in the sec template (Rob). > > > > > > > > > > Kent, it seems that you had a comment about clarifying > "long > > > lines" (?) but I fail to see which part you were referring > to, > > > especially that there are no occurrences of "lines" or "long > line" > > > in -21. May be this was related to some of the text removed > to > > > address the comment from Lou? > > > > > > > > > > Unless Kent still think a new rev is needed (and assuming > he > > > provides text :-)), I think this version is ready to be sent > to the > > > IESG. > > > > > > > > > > Thank you. > > > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > Med > > > > > > > > > > > -----Message d'origine----- > > > > > > De :[email protected] <[email protected]> > > > Envoyé : > > > > > > jeudi 14 novembre 2024 08:43 À :[email protected] > Cc > > > > > > :[email protected] Objet : I-D Action: > > > > > > draft-ietf-netmod-rfc8407bis-21.txt > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Internet-Draft draft-ietf-netmod-rfc8407bis-21.txt is > now > > > > > > available. It is a work item of the Network Modeling > > > (NETMOD) WG > > > > > > of the IETF. > > > > > > > > > > > > Title: Guidelines for Authors and Reviewers of > > > Documents > > > > > > Containing YANG Data Models > > > > > > Authors: Andy Bierman > > > > > > Mohamed Boucadair > > > > > > Qin Wu > > > > > > Name: draft-ietf-netmod-rfc8407bis-21.txt > > > > > > Pages: 93 > > > > > > Dates: 2024-11-13 > > > > > > > > > > > > Abstract: > > > > > > > > > > > > This memo provides guidelines for authors and > reviewers > > > of > > > > > > specifications containing YANG modules, including > IANA- > > > > > > maintained > > > > > > modules. Recommendations and procedures are > defined, > > > which > > > > > > are > > > > > > intended to increase interoperability and usability > of > > > Network > > > > > > Configuration Protocol (NETCONF) and RESTCONF > protocol > > > > > > implementations that utilize YANG modules. This > > > document > > > > > > obsoletes > > > > > > RFC 8407. > > > > > > > > > > > > Also, this document updates RFC 8126 by providing > > > additional > > > > > > guidelines for writing the IANA considerations for > RFCs > > > that > > > > > > specify > > > > > > IANA-maintained modules. The document also updates > RFC > > > 6020 > > > > > > by > > > > > > clarifying how modules and their revisions are > handled > > > by > > > > > > IANA. > > > > > > > > > > > > The IETF datatracker status page for this Internet- > Draft > > > is: > > > > > > > > > > https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2 > Feu > > > > r03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com%2F%3Furl%3Dhttps%253A%252F%2 > 525 > > > > 2&data=05%7C02%7Cjschoenwaelder%40constructor.university%7C24344a > 189 > > > > 79549eb81e008dd1375c882%7Cf78e973e5c0b4ab8bbd79887c95a8ebd%7C0%7C > 0%7 > > > > C638688118785598467%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRyd > WUs > > > > IlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D > %3D > > > > %7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=CkaKrIkcVy2t2m4jQQPTnC%2BAX7TgX6LNEJEAMm8xbyk > %3D > > > &reserved=0 > > > > > > Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-ietf-netmod- > > > > > > > > > > rfc8407bis%2F&data=05%7C02%7Cmohamed.boucadair%40orange.com%7C4ae > > > > > > > > > > ea5b9e9654b719a2308dd048011cb%7C90c7a20af34b40bfbc48b9253b6f5d20% > > > > > > > > > > 7C0%7C0%7C638671670286827006%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1h > > > > > > > > > > cGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsI > > > > > > > > > > ldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=TgPG%2BoExl6Z9GN27ifA%2FaXYeny > > > > > > juNEjhs%2BGPyqbC8pc%3D&reserved=0 > > > > > > > > > > > > There is also an HTML version available at: > > > > > > > > > > https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2 > Feu > > > > r03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com%2F%3Furl%3Dhttps%253A%252F%2 > 525 > > > > 2&data=05%7C02%7Cjschoenwaelder%40constructor.university%7C24344a > 189 > > > > 79549eb81e008dd1375c882%7Cf78e973e5c0b4ab8bbd79887c95a8ebd%7C0%7C > 0%7 > > > > C638688118785618370%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRyd > WUs > > > > IlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D > %3D > > > > %7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=lr%2FSgP9e8HufOad%2Bs6KMJ3twxXP0nlW9MwTSf8twK > Rw% > > > 3D&reserved=0 > > > > > > Fwww.ietf.org%2Farchive%2Fid%2Fdraft-ietf-netmod- > > > rfc8407bis- > > > > > > > > > > 21.html&data=05%7C02%7Cmohamed.boucadair%40orange.com%7C4aeea5b9e > > > > > > > > > > 9654b719a2308dd048011cb%7C90c7a20af34b40bfbc48b9253b6f5d20%7C0%7C > > > > > > > > > > 0%7C638671670286853445%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOn > > > > > > > > > > RydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjo > > > > > > > > > > yfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=VkB16NFtocbYQX5eL44D0EQaEGqrx6%2F3KG > > > > > > B7urTEbl4%3D&reserved=0 > > > > > > > > > > > > A diff from the previous version is available at: > > > > > > > > > > https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2 > Feu > > > > r03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com%2F%3Furl%3Dhttps%253A%252F%2 > 525 > > > > 2&data=05%7C02%7Cjschoenwaelder%40constructor.university%7C24344a > 189 > > > > 79549eb81e008dd1375c882%7Cf78e973e5c0b4ab8bbd79887c95a8ebd%7C0%7C > 0%7 > > > > C638688118785631232%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRyd > WUs > > > > IlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D > %3D > > > > %7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=9LL7V5Z7Ltzst5afuKpCg7FrGGJrz82mmZNZkWjL%2Fpg > %3D > > > &reserved=0 > > > > > > Fauthor-tools.ietf.org%2Fiddiff%3Furl2%3Ddraft-ietf- > netmod- > > > > > > rfc8407bis- > > > > > > > > > > 21&data=05%7C02%7Cmohamed.boucadair%40orange.com%7C4aeea5b9e9654b > > > > > > > > > > 719a2308dd048011cb%7C90c7a20af34b40bfbc48b9253b6f5d20%7C0%7C0%7C6 > > > > > > > > > > 38671670286867934%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWU > > > > > > > > > > sIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3 > > > > > > > > > > D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=V9MbbyKxm79Vx7qiOfDngiaYB%2FPWBNsCzGxuYK2 > > > > > > EvI4%3D&reserved=0 > > > > > > > > > > > > Internet-Drafts are also available by rsync at: > > > > > > rsync.ietf.org::internet-drafts > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > I-D-Announce mailing list [email protected] To > > > unsubscribe > > > > > > send an email [email protected] > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > ___ > > > > > ________________________________________ > > > > > Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des > > > informations > > > > > confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas > etre > > > > > diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. 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Les messages electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. Merci. This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged information that may be protected by law; they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and delete this message and its attachments. As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been modified, changed or falsified. Thank you. _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list -- [email protected] To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected]
