[image: wSxgs.png] On Wed, Jul 3, 2019 at 4:32 PM André Rebentisch <tabe...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Am 01.07.19 um 15:49 schrieb Max Herman: > > > > Hi André, > > > > Which of the formerly valuable lists are dead? I'm very far out of the > > loop working mostly offline for the last decade. > > Dear Max, > > almost all lists I am subscribed to. Simply members are not posting > anymore. I still read nettime. I still get lots of newsletters via list > infrastructure channels. > > Inter-Media Transition is normal. We have other means of online > communications. telegram groups, facebook groups, twitter, yodel, slack, > mattermost etc. Before usenet groups with their odd clients and rude > channel rules became obsolete. > > A simple method to kill a mailing list is spam. Or low quality > communications. Or dumping all kinds of communication into the list. Or > opening the mail archive to the general public without asking for prior > consent (happened on Liberationtech). Open Archives in return could lead > to legal risks in Germany, what do you do as a mailing list admin when > you face court injunctions to remove copyrighted or defamatory content > from list archives etc. You simply can't risk to let removed content pop > up again after an archive regeneration etc. > > Or other kinds of risks with ML public archives, I just recall an > exchange with RMS who didn't bother to call out the president of > Zimbabwe on a mailing list frequented by free software people of that > country where archives were kindly indexed by google. RMS insisted on > his right to free speech. Well, how nice to exercise your rights to > converse with people when an incautious reply (which your rant incites) > could get them killed or set behind bars and otherwise they cannot > respond on equal footing plus all you do is put your associates at risk. > > Mailman still has a horrible user interface. Often moderators don't > moderate anymore because there was too much spam, default settings are > suboptimal, spam filtering remains sub-standard. I have no idea why no > org financed a Mailman replacement or Mailman NG project. > > You could also observe the same phenomenon of declining list > communications on open source developer lists. Occasionally dead > communication channels come to new light. > > Encrypted mailing lists exist. Almost no one uses them. > > > One aspect of mailing lists is that they are a powerful example of a > > free public sphere (and maybe its most essential expression regardless > > of technological advancement). You can put a bunch of content in an > > email, and it can go to literally everyone on the planet. > > Yet who is keeping a record? And how to curate email exchanges? > > > All that said, a listserv is only as good as its content. If no one > > creates any content that is relevant, nothing that cannot be gotten > > better elsewhere, then why bother with the noisy clamor of a list? > > Attention is limited. The time people spent to acknowledge and oppose > the latest outrage, the daily trump tweet etc., is missing for serious > debate and thought. > > Online speech is Karl Kraus on steroids, always picking the > insignificant targets, always declaration of persons as enemies, always > hate mobs that try to engage us. > > Dialogue becomes impossible as we don't talk with each other anymore but > to (at times imaginary) third parties. As "Nick Nailor" (Aaron Eckhart) > explained in Thank you for Smoking: "Because I'm not after you, I am > after them". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLS-npemQYQ > > 20 years ago there was a common sentiment that open low-censored online > debates, even rude ones, contribute to a better and more open society... > only if we would spread the technology to ignorant people from the past > and institutions. Like in that previous Ito quote everyone had his or > her pivotal moment. > > Best, > André > > > # distributed via <nettime>: no commercial use without permission > # <nettime> is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, > # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets > # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l > # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org > # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject: > -- ((º Ω º)) http://bishopZ.com _______________________________________________________________________
# distributed via <nettime>: no commercial use without permission # <nettime> is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject:
