Not me Dennis, sorry, Graham On Jun 7, 2009, at 11:11 AM, Dennis wrote:
> Dennis, > > I'm sorry I'm explaining myself so badly. The long and the short > of it is that I took the two coils out and and swapped them left to > right and reinstalled them and the problem moved from 1 & 4 not > sparking to 2 & 3 not sparking. Since everything else was > unchanged and ONLY the coils were swapped, my conclusion is that > one of my coils is bad. > > Do you know of any reason why a coil pulled from an '84 or '85 > CB700SC wouldn't work if I put it into an '86? I ask because > there are some cheap single coils offered on EBay for $20 that I'm > looking at to replace the one I have that I think is bad. > > Graham, Dennis and everyone else. Anyone got a coil from an > CB700SC that you're parting out and willing to let go of? I'd > rather buy one from someone on this list than from someone I have > no knowledge of on EBay. > > Cheers all, > Dennis G. > - Seattle > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Dennis Hammerl > Sent: 06 June, 2009 22:53 > To: [email protected] > Subject: [Nighthawk Lovers] Re: My CB700SC and the CDI unit > > OK, everything works, but it doesn't... right ? That is, all > components work but they don't. AND, in any combination of inputs. > Oh boy.. > The coil frames ground to the bike frame at the bolts. Continuity > from coil frame to bike frame ? I'm not there, take a closer look > and check your work again. Moving the coils physically from one > side to the other made one work that didn't before ? Mounting point > corrosion ? > > --- On Sun, 6/7/09, Dennis <[email protected]> wrote: > > From: Dennis <[email protected]> > Subject: [Nighthawk Lovers] Re: My CB700SC and the CDI unit > To: [email protected] > Date: Sunday, June 7, 2009, 1:19 AM > > Dennis, > > Yeah, I can see I did not explain myself well. Let me try it again: > > Part 1: > > 2 & 3 were sparking and 1 & 4 plugs were not sparking. > At the 3P MINI, the schematic shows that yellow wire drives the > coil for the 2 & 3 plugs and the blue wire drives the coil for the > 1 & 4 plugs. > I swapped the yellow and blue wires at the 3P MINI plug. This > reversed which side of the igniter was driving which coil. > After this swap, nothing changed. > 2 & 3 were sparking and 1 & 4 plugs were not sparking. > > I made two conclusions from this: > > (1) Both sides of the igniter were working because both sides could > drive the coil that made the 2 & 3 plugs spark. > (2) Probably, one of my coils was bad in spite of it passing all my > continuity and resistance tests. > > Part 2: > > I put the 3P MINI plug back the way it is suppose to be. > I pulled the entire coil assembly out of the bike and reversed the > two coils; left became right and right became left. > I reinstalled the coil assembly. > Now the coil that had been driving the 2 & 3 plugs was driving the > 1 & 4 plugs > And the coil that had been driving the 1 & 4 plugs was now driving > the 2 & 3 plugs. > I cranked the starter over and the 1 & 4 plugs sparked and the 2 & > 3 plugs did not. > > I concluded that > > (1) The problem followed the bad coil when I reversed it with the > other one. > (2) All other components have been proven to work. This includes > both pulse generators, both sides of the Igniter, the spark plug > wires and the spark plugs. > > I think the only real mystery, unless I'm missing something here > (very possible), is why the two coils both measured correctly on > all continuity and resistance tests. > > I hope that's a better explanation. > Dennis G. > - Seattle > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Dennis Hammerl > Sent: 06 June, 2009 21:56 > To: [email protected] > Subject: [Nighthawk Lovers] Re: My CB700SC and the CDI unit > > After reading this a couple of times, I think I get it. The mini > plug wire swap didn't do anything but swapping the wires at the > coils did ? That's the almost the same thing. Check for continuity > in all those wires. At this point, take the wires off the live coil > and switch to the dead one.. OK? Now do the same thing with the > other pair. Problem moved ? Y~N ? What is the resistance of the > plug caps ? From what you say, you can get spark from both coils, > using different wiring configurations. That would mean both coils > are OK. AND, if I get this right, you are sure both outputs from > the CDI work as well. This leaves us with only the wires from the > mini plug to the coils. Maybe I'm missing something in your > description. > > > --- On Sat, 6/6/09, Dennis <[email protected]> wrote: > > From: Dennis <[email protected]> > Subject: [Nighthawk Lovers] Re: My CB700SC and the CDI unit > To: [email protected] > Date: Saturday, June 6, 2009, 6:10 PM > > Dennis, > > Yes, I think I understand it. > > I swapped the blue & yellow wires at the 3P MINI connector just > before the coils. The problem did not change; 2 & 3 still spark > and 1 & 4 do not. > > If I understand things, this fact is telling me that I have good > signal from both sides of the Ignitor because now 2 & 3 are firing > using the signal from the other side of the ignitor. So, if both > sides of the ignitor are working, then my problem must be beyond > the ignitor. I.e., the coils or their wiring. > > I pulled the coils out again and had a really good look at them. > > - I remeasured the resistance on both primaries and secondaries - > all still good. > - I checked for continuity on the wire that carries ground from one > coil to the other - it's good. > - I tested the primary's resistance and continuity from the coil > side of the 3P MINI plug and everything was good from there. > - I measured the resistance from the primary to the secondary on > both coils and it was basically infinity. > > So, I can't see by using my VOM where the 1 & 4 coil is any > different than the 2 & 3. > > My next step was to swap the coils and see if the problem moves. > And it did. Now 1 & 4 are sparking and 2 & 3 are not. > > My conclusion is that one of my coils is bad but I'm pretty baffled > as to why both coils seems identical when I test their continuity > and resistances. . > > I'm interested on your thoughts on all of this, Dennis. Am I > missing something here? > Dennis G. > - Seattle > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Dennis Hammerl > Sent: 06 June, 2009 11:06 > To: [email protected] > Subject: [Nighthawk Lovers] Re: My CB700SC and the CDI unit > > You do understand what I'm talking about ? It's very simple, you're > trading components to determine which one is at fault. The pins > come out of the plastic connectors by inserting a small screwdriver > in and moving the tang out of the way. I use a tool made for > leather working. Study the plastic connectors first and make notes > of where the wires belong for later. Your problem should move to > the 2-3 set at some point. That's when you find the bad part. > > --- On Sat, 6/6/09, Dennis <[email protected]> wrote: > > From: Dennis <[email protected]> > Subject: [Nighthawk Lovers] Re: My CB700SC and the CDI unit > To: [email protected] > Date: Saturday, June 6, 2009, 1:27 AM > > Beautiful. I'll be on it in the morning if business here is > light. Thanks! > > Dennis G. > - Seattle > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Dennis Hammerl > Sent: 05 June, 2009 22:13 > To: [email protected] > Subject: [Nighthawk Lovers] Re: My CB700SC and the CDI unit > > I did say you could move the wiring around at the connector plugs > to insure your diagnosis was correct. Now you really should. Go to > 22-1 and you'll see that the 1-4 pair at the coil is the bl/w and > Y. The 2-3 set is bl/w and Bu. Switching those pairs and still > having the 1-4 set out would indicate the coil is bad. If the 2-3 > set went out, move back to the CDI. Now you switch the yellow and > white pair with the blue and white pair. That switches the pulser > coils at the CDI. If the 1-4 pair is still out, it's the CDI. If it > swaps and the 2-3 set is out, it's the one pulse coil that's bad. > Yes, by all means, check for continuity at all wires. A similar > failed part ? possible. Use your VOM to eliminate confusion and > check all point to point wiring and grounds. > > --- On Fri, 6/5/09, Dennis <[email protected]> wrote: > > From: Dennis <[email protected]> > Subject: [Nighthawk Lovers] My CB700SC and the CDI unit > To: [email protected] > Date: Friday, June 5, 2009, 10:46 PM > > Well, my new Ignitor unit came and I installed it and my bike still > has the same symptoms. That is, cylinders 1 and 4 are not getting > any spark. > > I sat down and had a longer look at the schematic and I can see > some possible scenarios that might be consistant with the facts on > hand. > > Those facts are: > > - I've measured the resistances of both my primary and secondary > coils and my pulse generator coils and they all show continuity and > resitances that are within spec. > > - I've tried two different Ignitor units (my original and the new > one) and the system fails the same way with either (no spark on 1 & > 4). > > Scenario # 1 is that the new ignitor unit is bad in the same way > that the old one is, i.e. failing on the cylinder 1 & 4 side. I > don't think much of this idea however - seems like too big a > coincidence. > > Scenario #2: that even though the pulse generators both measure > good on continuity and resistance, the one that sends the signal > for 1 & 4 may, somehow, be out of place relative to the central > shaft that spins with a magnet on it to generate the pulses. > I'll be able to see this, I think, by cranking the bike and looking > for voltage pulses coming up the cable from the pulse generators. > If both sides have similar pulses, then I think this won't be the > issue. If one pulse is low or mssing, then I'll open the pulse > generator cover and see what's what in there. > > Scenario #3: one of the connectors linking the pulse generator > cable to the Ignitor may be corroded and not passing signal. > Frankly, this seems remote to me. The surfaces seem clean and > I've plugged and unplugged them several times. > > Scenario #4: The wire that carries the 1 & 4 signal from the > ignitor to the 1 & 4 coil may be open. I can run a simple > continuity test to demo this. I know the ground wire and the 2 &3 > wire from the ignitor to the coils has to be good as I've got spark > on 2 & 3. > > Scenario #5: The wire on the coils that carries the ground from the > 2 & 3 side to the 1 & 4 side may be open. > > Scenario #6: The connection where the 1 & 4 signal from the > ignitor connects to the 1 & 4 coil may be corroded and not passing > the signal. I've had this disconnected and reconnected and it > seems unlikely to me like in #3. > > Dennis H., are you reading this? I'm looking at page 19-0 in my > CB700SC manual and I'm wondering if I'm missing some other scenarios? > > Dennis > - samadhi<soft|coda|muse>.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Nighthawk Motorcycle Lovers!" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/nighthawk_lovers?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
