On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 5:35 AM, greelgorke <[email protected]> wrote:

> Few points in my opinon:
>
> 1. Callbacks are not un-intuitive. We do it all the way in our life. i
> mean besides the programming.
> 2. Callbacks are not hard to compose. they are functions, do them right,
> nothing stops you to compose, currie or memoing anything.
>
> One just have to make a little switch in his/her mind. I find it
> surprising, that many of us are willing to make a bigger switch to more
> abstract concepts, just to be back in old sync-imperative world... And it
> doesn't even save you from this so annoying task to think about your
> architecture...
>
> Besides of the callbacks, i think its hard to reason about if node should
> keep with v8 and adapt es6 features until we have real field experience
> with them.
>

Node.js (the core) isn't obligated to immediately use ES6 features, but
forking v8 to prevent the use of new language features will only result in
Node.js stagnation and ultimately, abandonment. I think it's safe to say
that won't happen.

Rick




> Node is supposed to be done and be crazy fast. so i'm with Trevor here.
>

> Am Dienstag, 6. August 2013 10:38:22 UTC+2 schrieb Trevor Norris:
>
>> I'd like a clarifying point. By callback system I'll assume that means
>> the EventEmitter modal.
>>
>> > But the concept of abstracting the callbacks away using a more
>> composable and more natural way is definitely a good thing, at least in my
>> opinion. The callbacks are a implementation detail of asynchronous io but
>> low-level stuff is not what a normal developer should rely on.
>>
>> Getting to the point of calling the callback has gone through so many
>> layers of abstraction I'd hardly call it low-level.
>>
>> > Nodes key feature is that it strongly encourages thinking about
>> concurrency but the best concurrency abstraction is the abstraction which
>> abstracts concurrency totally away. All I'm saying is that the node library
>> could evolve when the language does.
>>
>> As far as I'm concerned most the new "features" coming to JS are sugar.
>> The event based callback system is straight forward and cheap. Well, it
>> _can_ be cheap. Also easily extendable. I don't buy the argument it's
>> unnatural or difficult to reason. It's simple to define. The end of an
>> asynchronous task is an event. Then, if there's a listening callback it
>> gets fired.
>>
>> There are many ways to handle this, and unfortunately it seems there's
>> inconsistency. Do we just have one callback that we always call and pass
>> the status, or do we listen for several events and only fire for those that
>> have listeners? It's all implementation details, but adding an extra layer
>> of keywords and control flow isn't going to remove the fundamental problem.
>> That's easy enough to see in this thread. Even to the point of discussion
>> variable naming conventions to remove confusion. Seriously?
>>
>> I used to be on the band wagon of "let's chain all the things!" Then I
>> began to see how all the map() and forEach() in the world just makes things
>> run slow. It's all just syntactic sugar that for some reason makes
>> developers feel fuzzy. And it encourages bad patterns like writing
>> functions in functions. Can it be done? Yes, but if you ever take the time
>> to trace execution you'll see it has to reoptimize that code every time.
>>
>> And at the very least, until those "features" work without introducing
>> performance penalties I can't see them being integrated into core.
>>
>>  --
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