On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 11:12 AM, greelgorke <[email protected]> wrote:
> Uh, i don't say, fork and prevent. we're talking about adapting language > feature into core code, right? never said, node should do that. i said, > don't addapt anything, if it doesnt make node better than before. > Then I apologize for misunderstanding the point of this: "i think its hard to reason about if node should keep with v8 and adapt es6 features until we have real field experience with them." I still don't see where exactly the discussion had become node-code-centric, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and concede my wrongness. Rick > > Am Dienstag, 6. August 2013 16:58:21 UTC+2 schrieb Rick Waldron: >> >> >> >> >> On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 5:35 AM, greelgorke <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Few points in my opinon: >>> >>> 1. Callbacks are not un-intuitive. We do it all the way in our life. i >>> mean besides the programming. >>> 2. Callbacks are not hard to compose. they are functions, do them right, >>> nothing stops you to compose, currie or memoing anything. >>> >>> One just have to make a little switch in his/her mind. I find it >>> surprising, that many of us are willing to make a bigger switch to more >>> abstract concepts, just to be back in old sync-imperative world... And it >>> doesn't even save you from this so annoying task to think about your >>> architecture... >>> >>> Besides of the callbacks, i think its hard to reason about if node >>> should keep with v8 and adapt es6 features until we have real field >>> experience with them. >>> >> >> Node.js (the core) isn't obligated to immediately use ES6 features, but >> forking v8 to prevent the use of new language features will only result in >> Node.js stagnation and ultimately, abandonment. I think it's safe to say >> that won't happen. >> >> Rick >> >> >> >> >>> Node is supposed to be done and be crazy fast. so i'm with Trevor here. >>> >> >>> Am Dienstag, 6. August 2013 10:38:22 UTC+2 schrieb Trevor Norris: >>> >>>> I'd like a clarifying point. By callback system I'll assume that means >>>> the EventEmitter modal. >>>> >>>> > But the concept of abstracting the callbacks away using a more >>>> composable and more natural way is definitely a good thing, at least in my >>>> opinion. The callbacks are a implementation detail of asynchronous io but >>>> low-level stuff is not what a normal developer should rely on. >>>> >>>> Getting to the point of calling the callback has gone through so many >>>> layers of abstraction I'd hardly call it low-level. >>>> >>>> > Nodes key feature is that it strongly encourages thinking about >>>> concurrency but the best concurrency abstraction is the abstraction which >>>> abstracts concurrency totally away. All I'm saying is that the node library >>>> could evolve when the language does. >>>> >>>> As far as I'm concerned most the new "features" coming to JS are sugar. >>>> The event based callback system is straight forward and cheap. Well, it >>>> _can_ be cheap. Also easily extendable. I don't buy the argument it's >>>> unnatural or difficult to reason. It's simple to define. The end of an >>>> asynchronous task is an event. Then, if there's a listening callback it >>>> gets fired. >>>> >>>> There are many ways to handle this, and unfortunately it seems there's >>>> inconsistency. Do we just have one callback that we always call and pass >>>> the status, or do we listen for several events and only fire for those that >>>> have listeners? It's all implementation details, but adding an extra layer >>>> of keywords and control flow isn't going to remove the fundamental problem. >>>> That's easy enough to see in this thread. Even to the point of discussion >>>> variable naming conventions to remove confusion. Seriously? >>>> >>>> I used to be on the band wagon of "let's chain all the things!" Then I >>>> began to see how all the map() and forEach() in the world just makes things >>>> run slow. It's all just syntactic sugar that for some reason makes >>>> developers feel fuzzy. And it encourages bad patterns like writing >>>> functions in functions. Can it be done? Yes, but if you ever take the time >>>> to trace execution you'll see it has to reoptimize that code every time. >>>> >>>> And at the very least, until those "features" work without introducing >>>> performance penalties I can't see them being integrated into core. >>>> >>>> -- >>> -- >>> Job Board: http://jobs.nodejs.org/ >>> Posting guidelines: https://github.com/joyent/**node/wiki/Mailing-List-* >>> *Posting-Guidelines<https://github.com/joyent/node/wiki/Mailing-List-Posting-Guidelines> >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "nodejs" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected] >>> >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> nodejs+un...@**googlegroups.com >>> >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/**group/nodejs?hl=en?hl=en<http://groups.google.com/group/nodejs?hl=en?hl=en> >>> >>> --- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "nodejs" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to nodejs+un...@**googlegroups.com. >>> >>> For more options, visit >>> https://groups.google.com/**groups/opt_out<https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out> >>> . >>> >>> >>> >> >> -- > -- > Job Board: http://jobs.nodejs.org/ > Posting guidelines: > https://github.com/joyent/node/wiki/Mailing-List-Posting-Guidelines > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "nodejs" group. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected] > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected] > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/nodejs?hl=en?hl=en > > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "nodejs" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > > -- -- Job Board: http://jobs.nodejs.org/ Posting guidelines: https://github.com/joyent/node/wiki/Mailing-List-Posting-Guidelines You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "nodejs" group. 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