On Fri, Sep 4, 2015 at 5:55 PM, Matthew Brett <matthew.br...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi, > > On Fri, Sep 4, 2015 at 10:22 PM, Eric Firing <efir...@hawaii.edu> wrote: > > On 2015/09/04 10:53 AM, Matthew Brett wrote: > >> On Fri, Sep 4, 2015 at 2:33 AM, Matthew Brett <matthew.br...@gmail.com> > wrote: > >>> Hi, > >>> > >>> On Wed, Sep 2, 2015 at 5:41 PM, Chris Barker <chris.bar...@noaa.gov> > wrote: > >>>> 1) I very much agree that governance can make or break a project. > However, > >>>> the actual governance approach often ends up making less difference > than the > >>>> people involved. > >>>> > >>>> 2) While the FreeBSD and XFree examples do point to some real > problems with > >>>> the "core" model it seems that there are many other projects that are > using > >>>> it quite successfully. > >> > >> I was just rereading the complaints about the 'core' structure from > >> high-level NetBSD project leaders: > >> > >> "[the "core" and "board of directors"] teams are dysfunctional because > >> they do not provide leadership: all they do is act reactively to > >> requests from users and/or to resolve internal disputes. In other > >> words: there is no initiative nor vision emerging from these teams > >> (and, for that matter, from anybody)." [1] > >> > >> "There is no high-level direction; if you ask "what about the problems > >> with threads" or "will there be a flash-friendly file system", the > >> best you'll get is "we'd love to have both" -- but no work is done to > >> recruit people to code these things, or encourage existing developers > >> to work on them." [2] > > > > > > This is consistent with Chris's first point. > > Do you mean Chris' point that "I very much agree that governance can > make or break a project"? Charles Hannum's complaints about NetBSD > are very specific in blaming the model rather than the people. I > think the XFree86 story supports the same conclusion - that the > governance model caused a sense of diffused responsibility that lead > to bad decisions and lack of direction. > > >> I imagine we will have to reconcile ourselves to similar problems, if > >> we adopt the same structures. > > > > Do you have suggestions as to who would make a good numpy president or > > BDFL and potentially has the time and inclination to do it, or how to > > identify and recruit such a person? > > That's a good question, and the answer is that in the current > situation (zero interest in this discussion from the three current > members of the numpy leadership team) - no reasonable person would be > interested in that job. That's the situation we're in, and so we > have to accept that nothing is going to change, with the consequences > that implies. If the situation were different, and we had the > interest or commitment to explore this problem, then I guess we could > discuss other options including the one I suggested further up the > thread. > " Today, the project is run by a different cabal. This is the result of a coup that took place in 2000-2001, in which The NetBSD Foundation was taken over by a fraudulent change of the board of directors. (Note: It's probably too late for me to pursue any legal remedy for this, unfortunately.) Although "The NetBSD Project" and "The NetBSD Foundation" were intended from the start to be separate entities -- the latter supplying support infrastructure for the former -- this distinction has been actively blurred since, so that the current "board" of TNF has rather tight control over many aspects of TNP. " " The existing NetBSD Foundation must be disbanded, and replaced with an organization that fulfills its original purpose: to merely handle administrative issues, and not to manage day-to-day affairs. " It doesn't sound to me like a developer and community driven governance structure to me. Cheers Josef https://jeb2016.com/?lang=es > > Cheers, > > Matthew > _______________________________________________ > NumPy-Discussion mailing list > NumPy-Discussion@scipy.org > http://mail.scipy.org/mailman/listinfo/numpy-discussion >
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