The issue should not be one of "them against us" since that would not help at all. As a birder and as a photographer, I am concerned that these issues will have negative repercussions on the social interactions between us in the field. BTW, most of the bird photographers that I know are not "professional" but people who enjoy spending time shooting pictures of birds. Regarding the issue of reporting owl sightings, I stopped doing that after an unpleasant experience reporting the location of a Barred Owl that I saw in Central Park. Last week I saw a single Long-eared Owl roosting on a pine in Hunter Island (Pelham Bay Park). The bird was pretty high on a pine and well camouflaged to get a clear shot and I did not even try to get a picture. I wanted to report the sighting but I did not know how to do it without being too specific and explicit about the location and I did not even bother to do it to avoid arguments with other birders.
FP On Feb 6, 2012, at 12:22 PM, Nadine Scarpa wrote: > On Mon, Feb 6, 2012 at 12:13 PM, Mark Barriger <mark8b...@hotmail.com> wrote: > > "My attitude is if your serious about photographing owls and your serious > about observing them then spend more time out looking for them and less time > checking online for other people sightings." > > So lets go ahead and punish the folks who are serious about observing birds, > yet have full time jobs, families, and other commitments and don't have time > to go out looking for birds on a full-time basis. > > Sure - that's it! > > This thread is becoming an "us" against "them" thread - the "professional" > birders versus the folks who love birds, and love watching them, yet cannot > spend all day out in the field. > > It's getting ridiculous. > This topic is going on in most States right now because of the number of > Snowy Owls moving down. I think singling out the photographers is wrong but > honestly at least three quarters of the time when I see a "birder" make a > dumb controversial decision he/she usually has a camera present. Not even > just with owls but with birds in general. Here is my one quick example. > A few weeks back I visited a house in Madison, CT to see a Yellow-throated > Warbler. Most birders stood back and to the side and waited for the Warbler > to come in but we had to move our positions to see the feeders because two > photographers showed up, walked 8-10 ft from the feeder, and set up right in > front of us. (a) no consideration to the birders present, (b) no > consideration to the tenants that lived there and (c) no consideration to the > bird itself. All they cared about was getting that shot. > I read a posting somewhere from a birder/photographer who was upset at what > he witnessed while trying to photograph an Owl. I guess someone showed up and > released a mouse so that they could get a few flight shots. This person > wasn't mad because it might result in hurting the Owl itself BUT instead went > on to talk about how this kind of action was causing the value in his flight > shots to drop. Glad to see that his priorities were in order! > Most birders that I know don't report Owls and it's been that way for years > and I have to say that I'm more surprised when I see people reporting Owls > because 90% of the time it turns into a mess. Whether it's photographers or > birders the fact is owls atract and when that happens nothing good ever comes > out of it. Over the past two weeks I have been watching Barred, Saw-whet, and > a Snowy Owl here in Connecticut and all have remained in the same areas > because nobody knows about them and nobody bothers them. > My attitude is if your serious about photographing owls and your serious > about observing them then spend more time out looking for them and less time > checking online for other people sightings. > > > Mark Barriger > Wallingford, CT > > > > > From: ll...@lloydspitalnikphotos.com > To: NYSbirds-l@cornell.edu > CC: nysbirds-l@cornell.edu > Subject: RE: [nysbirds-l] Knee jerk reaction to 2 guys that just didn't get it > Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2012 10:38:29 -0500 > > > Hi all, > > I was going to stay out of this thread because it’s an impossible situation. > I come from 3 directions. I’m a long time birder, a professional wildlife > photographer and a listowner of Metro Birding Briefs. As a listowner I’ve > always discouraged posting of specific owl locations. Letting people know > there’s a Barred Owl in Central Park is fine but saying it’s at lamppost 7902 > isn’t. Likewise, a Snowy Owl is being seen at Breezy Point, OK but telling > people it’s in the third dune back, not as good. I personally believe that > self-policing is the best solution. Just a week or so ago, I was at Jones > Beach photographing the white Snowy Owl when somebody started approaching the > owl in a quick herky jerky manner. Of course, the owl flew. I was the first > to get to its new location and kind of set up a line where the owl wasn’t > disturbed but close enough to take photos. The offending photographer arriver > shortly after and started doing the same thing again. I told him he needed to > stop and explained what he was doing was wrong. He listened, stayed a few > more hours and never abused the bird again. > > There are ways of making your point without being confrontational that are > effective. There are also ways of approaching an owl or any other bird > without alarming it but it requires a lot of patience. I won’t go into the > technique but I took over 4000 images of “Whitey” and the bird always seemed > quite serene. I haven’t really post many images but if you’re on Facebook I’m > sure you can find a few. > > Educating new birders and photographers is essential as well as > self-policing. Just my 3 cents. > > > All the best, > > Lloyd > > Lloyd Spitalnik Photography > > www.lloydspitalnikphotos.com > > > From: bounce-39536371-10711...@list.cornell.edu > [mailto:bounce-39536371-10711...@list.cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Sam Stuart > Sent: Monday, February 06, 2012 10:19 AM > To: david speiser > Cc: NYS Birds > Subject: Re: [nysbirds-l] Knee jerk reaction to 2 guys that just didn't get it > > > All, > > > We are responsible for the sightings we make and the people we share those > with. It is important to balance the need for documenting rare and irregular > species vs. our desire to share these excellent sightings with others. This > is especially true when dealing with sightings of territorial and sedentary > species that are more susceptible to disturbances. These species should > probably be documented on eBird (www.eBird.org) and the NY State Avian > Records Committee (http://nybirds.org/NYSARC/nysarcform2.htm) rather than the > list serve. > > > > > Thanks, > > Sam Stuart > > > > > On Mon, Feb 6, 2012 at 10:08 AM, david speiser <david_spei...@hotmail.com> > wrote: > > I too agree with Cindy's summation. > The birding community as a whole should not turn into insular cliques that > make it easy > not to report when you know you will hear about the bird anyway. > Do we want this board to only report Herring Gull's except of course when a > Ross' Gull shows up! > That would need to be kept secret. > > Good birding, > > David Speiser > www.lilibirds.com > > > Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2012 06:14:22 -0800 > From: catbird...@yahoo.com > Subject: Re: [nysbirds-l] Knee jerk reaction to 2 guys that just didn't get it > To: nysbirds-l@cornell.edu > > > To echo Janet's post and in response to Stella's - I too have seen > photographers being insensitive to snowy owls, on other ocassions. I remember > one time there was a fantastic photo op for one particular owl at Jones Beach > a few years ago.... I even took one of my kids out of school so he could see > this beautiful bird. (there were actually TWO owls at the beach that day! We > saw both of them!). The first, "poster bird" was sitting on a dune, with at > least a half dozen photographers snapping away at a distance of about 15 > feet. Maybe not even that. Unbelievable but true. The second bird was more > skittish and was sitting by itself, closer to the beach. However, as my son > and I were watching it, a jogger running along the beach passed it too > closely (not seeing the bird) and the owl flushed, flying overhead and away. > You just can't win! > > > I disagree, however, that owls should not be mentioned on these birding > listservs. I would think that's just the beginning of a slippery > slope....first owls are kept secret, then perhaps a first-of-state nesting, > or other rare bird.... who's to say an inconsiderate photographer, or birder > (yes, those exist as well, I had the experience of one in my own back yard!), > will get close enough to ANY noteworthy bird to shoo it off and ruin the > experience for everyone else (not to mention stressing the bird!)? > > > Keeping sightings limited to "word of mouth" severely restricts who sees > what, turning birding (or the viewing of certain species) into a private club > of sorts - with only the elite "inner circle" allowed to participate. I for > one don't go birding regularly in winter, preferring to just go out for > rarities, and am not in anyone's cell phone contact list. I usually don't > like birding in a crowd. I know a few "key" people but nobody really well. > Word of mouth wouldn't work for me and wouldn't work for many other > respectable, but more casual birders who might come from out of the area just > to see an owl, or any other noteworthy bird. > > > There's no way to completely eliminate the problem. There will be clueless > joggers, dogs and their owners, and kids flushing the birds in addition to > the photographers and selfish birders who show up. You can't put a fence > around these birds. I believe that by posting photos or names (or even > license plates) of the perpetrators, they will eventually learn that it's not > worth their while to do what they're doing. Or they won't care and the > occasional bird may suffer an uncomfortable moment or two. I still think > that's better than a whole lot of decent, good folks losing out on something > really special. > > > have a great day! > > Cindy Wodinsky > > -- > > NYSbirds-L List Info: > > Welcome and Basics > > Rules and Information > > Subscribe, Configuration and Leave > > Archives: > > The Mail Archive > > Surfbirds > > BirdingOnThe.Net > > Please submit your observations to eBird! > > -- > > -- > > NYSbirds-L List Info: > > Welcome and Basics > > Rules and Information > > Subscribe, Configuration and Leave > > Archives: > > The Mail Archive > > Surfbirds > > BirdingOnThe.Net > > Please submit your observations to eBird! > > -- > > > > > -- > > -Sam > > > (917) 209-2566 > @surfbird917 > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/pasurfbird/ > > > > -- > > NYSbirds-L List Info: > > Welcome and Basics > > Rules and Information > > Subscribe, Configuration and Leave > > Archives: > > The Mail Archive > > Surfbirds > > BirdingOnThe.Net > > Please submit your observations to eBird! > > -- > > -- > NYSbirds-L List Info: > Welcome and Basics > Rules and Information > Subscribe, Configuration and Leave > Archives: > The Mail Archive > Surfbirds > BirdingOnThe.Net > Please submit your observations to eBird! > -- > -- > NYSbirds-L List Info: > Welcome and Basics > Rules and Information > Subscribe, Configuration and Leave > Archives: > The Mail Archive > Surfbirds > BirdingOnThe.Net > Please submit your observations to eBird! > -- > > -- > NYSbirds-L List Info: > Welcome and Basics > Rules and Information > Subscribe, Configuration and Leave > Archives: > The Mail Archive > Surfbirds > BirdingOnThe.Net > Please submit your observations to eBird! > -- -- NYSbirds-L List Info: http://www.NortheastBirding.com/NYSbirdsWELCOME http://www.NortheastBirding.com/NYSbirdsRULES http://www.NortheastBirding.com/NYSbirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm ARCHIVES: 1) http://www.mail-archive.com/nysbirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html 2) http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/NYSBirds-L 3) http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/NYSB.html Please submit your observations to eBird: http://ebird.org/content/ebird/ --
