Thanks Bruce. These are good points and I agree with all of them. I fully encourage the use of mailing lists for these exact reasons.
On Mon, 7 Dec 2020 at 13:43, Bruce Bannerman < bruce.bannerman.os...@gmail.com> wrote: > Edoardo and Phil, > > As to email discussion lists, they are very important for open > communications within open communities. For example, they: > > > - allow for open discussion on issues; > - provide a permanent record of what happened with a given issue > (provided that the archives are maintained and not corrupted); > - allow people who are not native speakers of the list’s language time > to digest and reflect on a given message; > - Similarly, they allow people who are time poor to catch up on issues > in their own time; > - allow people from different time zones to participate in > discussions. We have list members from around the world. > > > I could go on, but I think that I’ve made my point. > > Kind regards, > > Bruce > > > On 7 Dec 2020, at 11:17, Edoardo Neerhut <eneer...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Thanks for your thoughtful response Phil. I share much of your positivity > and appreciation for all the board has achieved. > > I agree that managing the myriad of communication channels is > difficult and time consuming. I have a love/hate relationship with the > mailing lists, but they seem to be the most open, universal mechanism to > disseminate information and have discussions. *Prediction*: *The year is > 3020 and we're still sending emails to mailing lists.* > > My own conclusion with communication is that people should communicate > wherever they like, but you have one central, open place for > official/important communication and that would be the mailing list. Part > of the conversation here seems to be: what is official and important? Did > we make things as open as we should have? > > These things are hard in a volunteer community, so this is not a criticism > of anyone, but a reflection on the ways we can continually improve. > > On Mon, 7 Dec 2020 at 10:18, Phil Wyatt <p...@wyatt-family.com> wrote: > >> Hi Folks >> >> >> >> *TLDR:* >> >> COVID-19! I am happy. The board are doing their difficult job in these >> initial stages. Communication in this day and age is bloody hard! Things >> will settle down. >> >> >> >> *My experience* >> >> I have been a low key bystander during the formation of OSGEO Oceania. I >> am retired and have lots of time on my hands to check multiple >> communication channels. I am an initial member having attended the >> Melbourne conference and supported the idea of an organisation that >> supports our region in Open Source software and OpenStreetMap. >> >> >> >> The role of the board is set out in a fairly legal and technical way and >> I commend all those that have stood up to take on the roles, especially in >> the formation stages of the organisation. >> >> >> >> >> https://aicd.companydirectors.com.au/resources/director-tools/practical-tools-for-directors/governance-relations/role-of-the-board >> >> >> >> It’s not easy, there will be a learning a curve for many and there will >> be frustrations, arguments and concerns as the organisation develops. *The >> overarching thing for me is that the board does not do anything that would >> be harmful to the community.* To date, I have not seen anything that I >> believe has harmed the community. In the year of COVID I am just thankful >> that you have all survived in your work lives (hopefully!) as well as >> helping set up a vibrant regional organisation. Thank you. >> >> >> >> There are likely processes that need to be ironed out, procedures that >> need formalising and standards set for appropriate timelines for actions >> but these things will get sorted as the pressure eases from the initial >> formation stage. Lets be honest, 2020 has been a year like no other and we >> have managed to survive! Thanks again to you all for your hard work. >> >> >> >> *Openness and communication* >> >> Do I, as a member, need to know every aspect of the board deliberations >> of all processes? No, I don’t, but I should have a role in helping >> formulate and at least seeing final drafts before a board sign-off. This >> has occurred with documents like the terms of reference. Would it be good >> to have the minutes of meetings in one place, yes absolutely. What’s the >> best place for those….well, I personally hate wiki’s but they seem to be >> the norm for open organisations. I can learn to live with that but I wish >> they had more structure and an easy way to navigate around! >> >> >> >> I follow many communication channels for various reasons…Slack, Discord, >> Mailing lists, Email, Telegram, Zoom, Big Blue Button, Youtube streams….the >> list is endless these days and adoption varies widely across the Oceania >> region. This will be a challenge in the short and long term for the >> organisation. Regions may have their own preferences for local >> communication so subject to information being available to the wider region >> it may well be that regions collectively put their thoughts back to the >> board by one appropriate formal channel. Maybe the mailing list is the >> ‘formal’ channel? >> >> >> >> *Conclusion* >> >> Don’t be too hard on yourselves – you are all volunteers. Yes, we all >> need to get some structure back into our lives and OSGEO Oceania is no >> different. Work on getting timely and regular processes in place and solid >> regular communication to a formal channel (or two) but personally, I don’t >> need all the minute details – *I trust the board to do no harm*! >> >> >> >> >> >> Cheers – Phil (aka tastrax) >> >> >> >> *From:* Oceania <oceania-boun...@lists.osgeo.org> *On Behalf Of *Edoardo >> Neerhut >> *Sent:* Sunday, 6 December 2020 10:32 PM >> *To:* oceania@lists.osgeo.org >> *Subject:* [OSGeo Oceania] A discussion on openness >> >> >> >> Hi everyone, >> >> >> >> *TLDR: * >> >> *To the current/former directors: How would you describe the >> organisation's experience with openness and transparency?* >> >> *To the whole community: How do you feel? What should the board and the >> community do more or less of?* >> >> >> >> *The context* >> >> There have been a number of comments made recently about transparency and >> openness and I wanted to tease them out a bit as the end of year >> approaches. In particular, Adam and John expressed their concerns here >> <https://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/oceania-board/2020-November/000112.html> >> and here >> <https://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/oceania/2020-November/002439.html> >> respectively, with both resigning as directors as a consequence. >> >> >> >> This is clearly an issue for further discussion. The OSGeo Oceania >> director elections end in a few hours and regardless of the results, I am >> very keen to hear what practical steps we should take to address these >> concerns. Adam/John: if you have time to elaborate that would be much >> appreciated as well. >> >> >> >> *My experience* >> >> I think most would agree transparency and openness should be >> fundamental aspects to our community. What's harder is living up to them. I >> am guilty of sending a quick Slack message or email to people for the sake >> of expediency, but failing on transparency as a consequence. >> >> >> >> I have worked with many on the current board and feel they are all >> wonderful, talented people, operating with the best interests of OSGeo >> Oceania at heart. I'm optimistic about where we're at and we can go and I >> want to thank all on the board and the wider community for getting us here. >> Hundreds of people from across the region have been able to learn, share, >> and connect with geospatial ideas and tools through these efforts. I >> honestly don't believe there is a people issue here, but a fog over the >> decision making process which we need to tease out. >> >> >> >> My read from where I stand is that there is a constant battle between >> expediency and openness. I am still trying to understand the relationship >> between these two things at a practical level. >> >> >> >> *Practically speaking, what should we do?* >> >> I am going to assume we agree that openness is fundamental to the health >> of the organisation. If I have falsely assumed this, please correct me. >> >> >> >> On the areas we are failing, why do we think this is the case? I believe >> everyone is operating in good faith. >> >> - Take the example of meeting minutes. They went up eventually, so do >> we need to make sure we share responsibility more so that this happens >> immediately after? Could members of the community join board meetings in >> this role? >> - On board decisions, why were some decisions timely? Can we minimise >> that in future? Were some board members slow to make a decision? What is >> the expectation here from board members? >> - The concept of membership is still vague and I bear more >> responsibility for this failure than anyone. At the same time, this is >> something that we as a community should decide collectively. I should have >> done more to initiatie that conversation openly. >> >> These are just three examples. I'm sure there are many more. >> >> >> >> *So finally, what are the low hanging fruits? Where should the community >> focus our efforts going forward? Why are we failing in these areas? How >> should we address them?* >> >> >> >> We've come a long way thanks to all of you and I'm very optimistic about >> the road ahead. How do we traverse it? >> >> >> >> Looking forward to hearing everyone's thoughts. >> >> >> >> Ed >> >> >> >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Oceania mailing list > Oceania@lists.osgeo.org > https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/oceania > > >
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