I fundamentally disagree with your assertion that this usage case is
limited to ARC. I frequently post to lists that I'm not a member of --
and not just in the context of my ARC membership. Many of the projects
that I've been involved with over the years cross several disciplines.
For example, the work I did on audio included changes to the security
portion of device allocation. It was appropriate therefore that I
solicit security-discuss@ for review feedback and participation. But I
don't want to be on security-discuss at .
I think sometimes people have a simple question that they want
answered. Lets imagine the case of someone who's struggling configuring
a PKCS#11 module as a specific example. They're probably not prepared
to be fully involved in all the various security discussions, but they
might like to ask a simple question that can be answered by the folks on
the security-discuss@ list. But, if that mail list just outright
rejects their e-mail, the user is faced with two (maybe three) options:
1) subscribe to the list
2) give up on the list and find other resources to answer the question
(and often, if that doesn't work, just give up on actually solving it --
in some cases I suspect this turns people off to OpenSolaris altogether)
3) if they know someone *specifically*, they can send a "targetted"
e-mail to a list member to ask them or ask them to repost for them
Collaboration and participation should, IMO, have a very low barrier.
The subscription barrier is simply too high in some cases for effective
participation.
-- Garrett
Valerie Bubb Fenwick wrote:
> Hi Garrett -
>
> Your response does not make sense in the context of my message. I think
> people are trying to help, but the usage case is not clear (that was
> what I was tryign to get at - your complaints are about a special
> case - most people don't see the need to post to aliases they would
> never in a million years want to subscribe to. ARC members are that
> exception, IMO).
>
> And I don't believe these people don't want your feedback - I think they
> don't know about this, which is why I suggested some wording for the
> 1-pager document
> to let them know this may be a problem for their project.
>
> It also sounds like a policy may help here, which can be written up and
> sent to the OGB for a vote, if needed. Certainly a good place to
> start is
> the suggestion box:
> http://wiki.genunix.org/wiki/index.php/Suggestion_Box
>
> Valerie
>
> On Mon, 11 May 2009, Garrett D'Amore wrote:
>
>> I give up. I don't care anymore if anyone receives my e-mail or not.
>> Frankly, the pain and suffering trying to "participate" in the open
>> fora is simply not worth it. The current "administration" simply
>> doesn't care about "participation", they just want to minimize their
>> workload. Fine. I'll minimize my "workload" and go back to
>> contribution in the way I still can -- by writing code.
>>
>> - Garrett
>>
>> Valerie Bubb Fenwick wrote:
>>> On Mon, 11 May 2009, Garrett D'Amore wrote:
>>>
>>>> Simon Phipps wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> On May 11, 2009, at 17:30, Garrett D'Amore wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm not sure I understand what you mean by repost.
>>>>>
>>>>> When I post a message to an OpenSolaris list and it bounces or is
>>>>> held for moderation, I just send it again from a different
>>>>> address. Rinse & repeat until it works. When a list is moderated
>>>>> this approach is more tedious as I have to go cancel the earlier
>>>>> attempts.
>>>>>
>>>>> Totally, impossibly broken.
>>>>>
>>>>> S.
>>>>>
>>>> Well, if the list was properly moderated, you could simply wait for
>>>> the moderators to allow it. A *smart* moderator would just add the
>>>> address to the whitelist the first time it occurred. So you'd only
>>>> have to do deal with this once, ever. (But you'd have to wait for
>>>> it.)
>>>>
>>>> When my message bounces, I often just give up. This does mean that
>>>> some lists miss out on key comments I make to their ARC cases. But
>>>> I guess this was an active choice that the list owners made, so
>>>> they get (or rather don't get) what they deserve.
>>>
>>> Hi Garrett -
>>>
>>> I'm guessing you hit this a lot due to your ARC duties, right? Where
>>> someone
>>> sends in a case for review & copies their own iteam or interest
>>> alias, but
>>> *you* can't send mails to their alias.
>>>
>>> This seems like something the ARC could document around that would
>>> help,
>>> something like:
>>> "i-team alias (must be postable by anyone during review period):"
>>>
>>> on the 1-pager form.
>>>
>>> of course, someone submitting the case may not have control over the
>>> alias.
>>>
>>> Someone had before suggested that, if there was such a way, it would be
>>> nice if any address subscribed to any opensolaris.org alias could post
>>> to all others, but I don't know enough about our mailmain instance
>>> to know
>>> if such intelligence in the tool is possible.
>>>
>>> Valerie
>>
>>
>
> Valerie
