> We are a group of users who believes in OOo. > We like to help other users through forums (some like ML, we prefer forum, > that's life).
This all and then tons of work you already have done (up to 18.000 posts!!) should make you eligible as an ASF committer. Cheers > The question of the forum in the Oracle donation was not clear so we HAD to > approach ASF to check what would be the future. As you (Rob) were the most > "visible" on the web, you've been approached. > All Volunteers are have not applied to the committer role because you never > engaged with us directly on the forum. Most of the Volunteers don't care > about how ASF works. They like to help other users and they just do that. > > The forum has been created because of the lack of administration of the > initial forum (oooforum which is still a great place for code snippets). > Nobody but the owner had any power to improve the forum (spam is still a > plague over there it seems) and the owner is nowhere to be found. The forum > has been settled by users and has given users the power to improve it > through the Volunteer status (a kind of meritocracy if you want). It's > amazing how you ask us to trust you but you can't trust a group of users > just wanting to help... But you're 1 vote, that's all. I hope the list will > get the picture. > > As for your proposal, here are my votes below, in your mail. > > If you want another committer, then take this mail as a request to be one. > > [Edit] Sent from the registered mail address. > I would add: please remember that you're dealing with a mass end-user > oriented project! Not something you were used to handle I think. The forums > as long as the OOo ML are not sub-parts of the community, they are the > community. And most of the users don't care about the governance of the > project as long as the product is fine for them. > > Hagar > OOo User Community EN co-admin & moderator > NB: previously known as Hagar de l'Est > > > Le dim. 04 sept. 2011 16:36:27 CEST, Rob Weir <robw...@apache.org> a écrit : >> >> 1) The Terms of Use and other policy documents used by the Forum >> should be reviewed and approved by the PPMC, and for the former, also >> by Apache legal. > > +1 > >> 2) We need to develop a privacy policy for the Forums, also to be >> reviewed by the PPMC and Apache legal > > -1. Doesn't it come from the private forum issue? There is no issue. You've > your private list, we have a private section. You want access to it? No > problem. > We handle governance issue in private? OK, we can change that. It was so > just to avoid all the lengthy discussions with users who just take the forum > as a customer service and can't help complaining. > >> 3) Changes to Forum policies, TOU and privacy policy would require a >> proposal on ooo-dev, and discussion and consensus reached there. It >> is possible that preliminary public discussions could occur in other >> places first, such as on the Forums themselves. But the project's >> official discussions and decisions are made on ooo-dev. In other >> words, if it didn't happen on the project's main list (ooo-dev), it >> didn't happen. > > +1. > >> 4) We need the Forum website to conform to Apache branding >> requirements, including the podling-specific requirements > > +1. > >> ==Approval of Forum roles== >> >> My understanding is that forums have essentially three roles: >> >> a) Users >> b) Moderators, who delete, edit and move all posts, ban users, etc. >> c) Admins who can also create new forums and assign moderator rights >> >> 5) Users require no special treatment. They are like subscribers to a >> users list. > > +1. > >> 6) Being listed as an "admin" or "moderator" on a public-facing Apache >> website suggests endorsement by the project, and aside from any >> enhanced Forum capabilities enhances your ability to keep order on the >> Forums. In other words, it is the star that makes the sheriff, not >> the gun. But this endorsement, to be meaningful, should be made >> authentic. So Admins and Moderators should be approved by the PPMC. >> This kind of routine approval is given all the time for those who want >> to be list moderators. I see no reason why we cannot, initially at >> least, simply receive a list of current volunteers to ooo-private and >> approve them all. > > -1. Same as Zoltan. Except if admins and moderators are PPMC themselves. > They are the ones who monitor the forum, know the users by reading their > posts and how they react. > >> 7) Future grants of admin/moderator rights would require a proposal to >> ooo-dev seeking lazy consensus. Such a proposal could originate from >> a forum volunteer or could originate from anyone on ooo-dev. This is >> no different than someone asking to be a moderator for a mailing list. > > -1. Same as above. > >> 8) Any project committer, on request, will be made a forum admin or >> moderator. This is how it works with every other project resource -- >> mailing lists, source code, website, etc. Committers have rights to >> pretty much everything on the project. We trust our committers. We >> don't segregate the project into exclusive zones of ownership. > > +1. > >> ==Transparency== >> >> 9) We need all private forum discussions to be echoed to a log or >> mailing list where PPMC and Apache Members can view them. One way of >> doing this is to echo posts to ooo-private. Another way is to >> periodically commit logs to the PPMC's private directory. There may >> be other ways as well. > > +1. There are already examples and solutions discussed in the forum (had you > registered...) > >> 10) The use of private forums must be used for only discussions of >> specific moderation cases. It must not be used for discussion of >> routine board operations. > > +1. What if users complain about how the governance is made? Ask them to be > a committer? As it would request him to do something, it's like to say > sorry, you can see but you can't touch. Not sure it's worth showing the cake > then. But well, let's try it if you want. > >> 11) One admin or moderator from each of the 10 language-specific >> boards should be signed up on the ooo-dev list and ooo-users list. >> This could also be done by requiring that Forum Admins also be >> Committers, but that is not something we are starting with, though it >> could be an eventual goal. > > +1. > >> 12) We should also encourage existing committers to participate >> directly in answering questions on the support forum. It is valuable >> to see how ordinary users use the product and the difficulties they >> encounter. It puts our coding decisions in perspective. This is a >> two-way street. It is not just to encourage support volunteers to be >> more aware of other parts of the project, but also to make other parts >> of the project more involved with support, or at least more aware. >> We're all on the same project. Our actions and decisions impact each >> other. > > +1. Will monitor this with great pleasure. > >> >> 13) The PPMC should give serious consideration to forum >> admins/moderators who help with the above tasks, for approval as >> Committers and PPMC members. It is important that the PPMC always be >> looking out for merit that should be recognized. It does not matter >> that the forum volunteers did not previously participate in overall >> discussions of the project's direction. That was then, this is now. >> We will all benefit from having support volunteers as part of the >> decision making process, including the important decision of approving >> a release. > > Politics. > -- http://www.grobmeier.de
