On 10/20/2011 10:14 AM, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote:
Rob,
As were you, I was looking at the value of the ezmlm confirmation e-mail and
its opt-in requirement for moderator-initiated subscriptions. It seemed to me
that would provide a clean opt-in point for users of lists about to be
retired.
The process for the moderator-initiated subscription needs to know
subscription e-mail addresses for the current members of the to-be-retired
list. It depends, of course, on a moderator having the subscriber e-mail
addresses, and I did not indicate how that could be solved any more than your
experiment did.
I think the modifications to ezmlm messages is important regardless.
- Dennis
STILL THINKING OUT LOUD
On the other hand, making moderators of the current list be moderators on the
new list and being sure that they notify the list of the move prospect would
be a way to subdivide the work with people who presumably do have access to
the distribution list of the retiring ML. Those moderators can be expected to
follow the rules that apply in their jurisdictions.
And wait: Aren't the lists on a US hosted site already? The Oracle Privacy
Policy might be the governing situation.
Providing an opt-in migration that is not a surprise to the list members,
announced clearly in advance, might be a clean way to navigate all of this.
My guess here is that it is highly unlikely that lists of users or the
forwarding map will be made available.
The best approach for contacting these users is to send messages to the
various ML.
Also, there is no imminent shutdown of the ML infrastructure or any of
the other infrastructure hosted on Kenai (including the hg & svn).
The hosting for the forums and wiki is going away, and we need to look
at doing the cut-over.
Andrew
-----Original Message-----
From: Rob Weir [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2011 09:29
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Proposal] Shutting down legacy OOo mailing lists
On Thu, Oct 20, 2011 at 12:23 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton
<[email protected]> wrote:
The moderator-issued subscription e-mail seems useful, especially because it
is done as an opt-in (requiring confirmation from the recipient). If the
list
to be retired was informed of this process, its near-automatic operation
could
be considered.
I don't see how this could work. Maybe if you happen to be a
moderator of the legacy list and are willing to take on yourself any
personal liability related to data protection laws. But I don't see
how this would work in general. Any thing we do to automate this
would still require proactive action by the user, either sending an
email, clicking a mailto: link in an email, or going to a website and
entering their email address. They would need to do an action like
that, and then respond to the confirmation email.
- Dennis
THINKING OUT LOUD
With regard to the messages from ezmlm, I wonder if these are ones that are
customizable by list. I thought they were. A valuable way to do this might
be to include a link to an English-language version of the message in all NL
ones. Pointing to other useful web pages might also be valuable. I notice
that ezmlm is designed to work relying on e-mail alone and that should be
preserved, but links to web-based support is also valuable and is very
useful
to link to. The web page could also deal with thing such as what OOo lists
does this one replace, where are the archives for the original list(s), etc.
OPEN ITEMS
It strikes me that there remains the issue I see, in that the ooo-younameit
@
i.a.o lists are considerably less friendly than the theynamedit@ OO.o lists.
-----Original Message-----
From: Rob Weir [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2011 07:57
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Proposal] Shutting down legacy OOo mailing lists
On Wed, Oct 19, 2011 at 4:11 PM, Andrea Pescetti
<[email protected]> wrote:
<snip>
I would turn the post you describe into a warning that the mailing list
address will change, including all information about Apache but not
requiring users to take action. I volunteer to consolidate the 12 lists
into
3 and to subscribe users to the right ones (of course, being "project
owner"
of it.openoffice.org, I have a list of all subscribers to the 12 lists).
I did an experiment on how we can subscribe users to the mailing list
automatically. I looked just at the technical aspect of this. I did
not look at the legal or policy implications.
Moderators of Apache lists can subscribe new users to the list, by
sending a specially addressed email to the list manager. For example,
to subscribe [email protected] to this list, you would send an email to:
[email protected]
Note the @ in the address is replaced by an =
A moderator can do the above, but this still will generate a
confirmation email, to [email protected], in English:
-----------------
"Subject: confirm subscribe to [email protected]
Hi! This is the ezmlm program. I'm managing the
[email protected] mailing list.
I'm working for my owner, who can be reached
at [email protected].
To confirm that you would like
[email protected]
added to the ooo-dev mailing list, please send
a short reply to this address:
[email protected]
Usually, this happens when you just hit the "reply" button.
If this does not work, simply copy the address and paste it into
the "To:" field of a new message.
or click here:
mailto:[email protected]";
-----------------
So with the moderator rights available to us now, we can't do a fully
automated sign up of existing list members, even if we had resolved
the legal and policy issues. I don't know if there are other,
administrative functions in ezmlm that could be used, by Apache Infra,
to more fully automate this.
-Rob
