On Tue, Sep 18, 2012 at 3:16 AM, Jürgen Schmidt <jogischm...@gmail.com> wrote: > On 9/18/12 4:45 AM, Peter Junge wrote: >> Hi, >> >> -------- Original-Nachricht -------- >>> Datum: Mon, 17 Sep 2012 11:13:15 -0700 >>> Von: Andrew Rist <andrew.r...@oracle.com> >>> An: ooo-dev <ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org> >>> Betreff: [PMC] Proposed PMC List >> >>> >>> Andre Fischer (af) >>> Andrea Pescetti (pescetti) >>> Drew Jensen (atjensen) >>> Jürgen Schmidt (jsc) >>> Kay Schenk (kschenk) >>> Raphael Bircher (rbircher) >>> Pedro Giffuni (pfg) >>> Yang Shih-Ching (imacat) >>> Oliver-Rainer Wittmann (orw) >>> RGB.ES (rgb-es) >>> >>> >> >> I would like to propose a different approach and determining the PMC in >> three steps. Every step should take 72 hours, then compiling the results and >> starting the next step: >> >> 1. Inclusive step >> ----------------- >> We start by taking the latest proposed list (*) from the thread "Continue >> work on a final PMC roster" (Juergen, Sept 6, 2012) that happened before on >> ooo-private@. (No reference because not anyone can read the private >> archives). >> That list already included 49 committers to be consider for the PMC. As well >> a couple of 'non-included' persons and 'needs discussion' are listed. >> >> During step 1. everybody is free to propose anyone to be added to the >> "is-included list". IMHO, it doesn't matter if the additionally proposed >> persons are from 'non-included', 'needs discussion' or anyone else. >> Self-nomination should also be allowed. >> >> At the end of step 1., we will have a list of 49 + X proposed PMC members >> that will be used as input for step 2. >> >> 2. Exclusive step 1 >> ------------------- >> We contact everyone who is included in the resulting list of step 1., if >> (s)he wants to be part ob the AOO PMC. A reply is mandatory for anybody who >> wants to attend the PMC. Committers need to express their interest on >> working on AOO governance. Persons who do not reply will be excluded and of >> course all those who simply say: 'no'. After step 2. we will have a shorter >> list that is then used as input for step 3. >> >> 3. Exclusive step 2 >> ------------------- >> That will be the toughest step and certainly spark controversy again. >> Committers may raise concerns who of the persons remaining after step 2. is >> not appropriate to attend the AOO PMC. From my point of view, candidates >> shouldn't be removed with a single veto, but every proposal for removal that >> finds supporters needs to be carried out. >> >> The result of step 3. in a agreed-on list of PMC members. >> >> Please comment on my proposal. If there are no significant objections, I >> would draft an initial posting for executing the above proposed procedure >> next weekend. Processing will likely take about 2 weeks: 3x72h + a couple of >> days to compile results and moving forward to the step in between. >> > > I think it is counterproductive that whenever we try to push the PMC > roster selection process forward somebody comes up with a new proposal > that she/he prefers over the others. Any attempt on ooo-private to > continue the started selection process got interrupted by somebody for > whatever reasons. >
+1 A review of Buridan's Ass is in order: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buridan%27s_ass We need to start eating more hay, and spend less time designing equivalent bales of hay. IMHO, of course. -Rob > I say we should concentrate on finishing things that have to be done > anyway and let us move forward and let us come to an agreement. Andrew's > proposal was known for some days now and nobody really complained and > nobody tried to push it forward. Probably because some attempts on > private were interrupted immediately. > > Now we started to give this attempt a try with a clear timeline of one > week and check the result afterwards. Why not simply trying it? And the > explained way sounds reasonable to get an impression which people have > merit enough trust and confidence by the rest of the community to serve > in the PCM. > > Several approaches could be used and probably all come to a similar > result. I believe at least all filter processes will come to a similar > result. > > In the end it doesn't really matter and the selected PMC will be the > start only and will grow over time. > > A few words below to our initial approach on ooo-private to help people > to understand how we started the initial process. > > I reused parts of a draft that I had ready for several days and where I > of course proposed also a new approach. But I skipped the proposal > because it is similar to Andrews. And more important is not how we > accomplish the PMC roster but that we finish it. And that we can all > support the selected approach. > > We should continue the graduation process because I still believe that > we are ready. And the best way to demonstrate that we can manage > ourselves is to move this PMC roster definition, the PMC chair selection > and the graduation forward in the Apache way. > > Graduation and being a TLP will be the last important signal to the > public that AOO is arrived at Apache finally and can be probably seen as > a safe investment to migrate to or to build a business on top of it. All > this will help to grow our project. And that is our all goal, we want a > growing community by bringing more people to OpenOffice and to > participate more active in the community. > > So let us move forward and let us take the exit of the circle. > > Juergen > > > Extract of my draft: > > ... > We as project got advised that we should do some cleanup of the PPMC > before we move forward to graduation as a TLP. > > We had many, many discussion on this already (mainly on our private list > because we did already discuss names) and I will try to explain what we > had done so far and what are our options to finalize this selection > process. We have to think about it anyway and it can be done completely > independent of any other ongoing discussion. Whatever we will find out > somewhere else we have to come back to a selection process. > > My goal here is to explain things and make it transparent for all. > > There is an ongoing discussion what a good PMC member would be and I > recommend everybody to read this and other related threads to get an > idea and an opinion about it. > > If you are not interested in the PMC it's fine, it's no must, not > necessary, no privilege and shouldn't be seen as a special status. At > Apache all community members are in principal equal and can contribute > in the way they prefer and they can. > > Current PPMC > The current PPMC exists of many initial committers and some people we > have voted in over time and when we voted for people to become a > committer and PPMC member in one step. We noticed that this doesn't > scale very well in the long term and we started to decouple the vote and > make them independent from each other. > To make it short we have a huge PPMC where many people are not visible, > not active, do not participate in any kind of stuff that needs to be > done by a PMC. > > The question is if that make sense and in case of no, how we can correct > it before we graduate? > > A question and a necessary selection process that nobody like and > where we probably can make mistakes only. But we have to do it sooner or > later! > > What we have done so far? > The first step we have started with was to think about the current PPMC > and try to figure out who is still here, who participate in the project, > who is active, who is visible. Nothing more and nothing less because we > think that this was a good first selection. At least we discussed it and > nobody really complained about it. The next obvious step should have > been to discuss further candidates that felt through this selection > process. Well we haven't finished this step and haven't finished the > definition or selection of a final PMC roster at all that we need for a > potential graduation. > The reason is that we drifted in much more general discussion and moved > a little bit round in circles (at least from my point of view). Don't > get me wrong these discussion were probably useful in the end but they > were expensive. I don't go in further details and I think we are not > longer interested to seek the fault for this by somebody ... > We learned hopefully from it and it happens in such a constellation that > people have different opinions. In the end it is important that we come > to a consensus and move forward. > ... > > > >> Peter >> >> (*) For those who haven't followed the discussion the latest proposed list >> in "pass 5" was: >> == PMC member== >> Albino Neto (bino28) >> Allen Pulsifer (apulsifer) >> Andre Fischer (af) >> Andrea Pescetti (pescetti) >> Andrew Rist (arist) >> Antón Méixome (meixome) >> Ariel Constenla-Haile (arielch) >> Armin Le Grand (alg) >> Carl B. Marcum (cmarcum) >> Claudio Filho (filhocf) >> Cyril Beaussier (bidouille) >> Damjan Jovanovic (damjan) >> Dave Barton (bmcs) >> David Fisher (wave) (Apache Membeber) >> David McKay (thegurkha) >> Donald P. Harbison (dpharbison) >> Drew Jensen (atjensen) >> Graham Lauder (yo) >> Herbert Dürr (hdu) >> Ian Lynch (ingotian) >> Jian Fang Zhang (zhangjf) >> Jian Hong Cheng (chengjh) >> Jim Jagielski (jim) (Apache Membeber) >> Jin Hua Chen (chenjinh) >> Juan C. Sanz (jucasaca) >> Jürgen Schmidt (jsc) >> Kay Schenk (kschenk) >> Kazunari Hirano (khirano) >> Louis Suarez-Potts (louis) >> Maho NAKATA (maho) >> Marcus Lange (marcus) >> Oliver-Rainer Wittmann (orw) >> Pedro Giffuni (pfg) >> Peter Junge (pj) >> Phillip Rhodes (prhodes) >> Raphael Bircher (rbircher) >> Regina Henschel (regina) >> RGB.ES (rgb-es) >> Rob Weir (robweir) >> Roberto Galoppini (galoppini) >> Roberto Salomon (salomon) >> Simon Brouwer (simonbr) >> Thomas J. Frazier (yj) >> Wang Lei (leiw) >> Yang Shih-Ching (imacat) >> Yong Lin Ma (mayongl) >> Yuri Dario (ydario) >> Zhe Wang (wangzcdl) >> Zoltán Reizinger (r4zoli) >> >> == Needs discussion == >> An Hongyun (hyan) >> Michal Hrin >> Paolo Pozzan >> Hagar Delest >> Frank Peters >> Jomar Silva >> Xia Zhao >> Eike Rathke >> >> == No PMC member (for now) == >> Arthur Buijs (artietee) >> Christian Lippka (clippka) >> Christoph Jopp (cjopp) >> Florent André (florent) >> Ingrid von der Mehden (ingrid) >> Ivo Hinkelmann (ivo) >> Kai Ahrens (kahrens) >> Kai Sommerfeld (kso) >> Lawrence Rosen (lrosen) (Apache Member) >> Malte Timmermann (malte) >> Manfred A. Reiter (fredao) >> Martin Hollmichel (mhollmichel) >> Mathias Bauer (mbauer) >> Stefan Taxhet (st) >> Stephan Bergmann (sb) >> Steve Lee (stevelee) >> Yegor Kozlov (yegor) (Apache Member) >> >> == Emeritus == >> Wolf Halton (wolfhalton)(per his request) >> Dennis E. Hamilton (orcmid) (per his request) >> >
