On Oct 9, 2012, at 6:48 PM, Ian Lynch <ianrly...@gmail.com> wrote: > On 9 October 2012 21:37, Raphael Bircher <rbirc...@apache.org> wrote: > >> Am 09.10.12 22:19, schrieb Rob Weir: >>> On Tue, Oct 9, 2012 at 4:05 PM, Raphael Bircher <rbirc...@apache.org> >> wrote: >>>> Am 09.10.12 21:07, schrieb Rob Weir: >>>>> On Tue, Oct 9, 2012 at 2:39 PM, Ian Lynch <ianrly...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> On 9 October 2012 18:00, Alexandro Colorado <j...@oooes.org> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> On 10/9/12, Ian Lynch <ianrly...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> OOo had a substantial community marketing project with community >> members >>>>>>>> attending key events. How do we improve on that now with AOO? >>>>>>> I remember one of the last activities before OOo was forked and most >>>>>>> operations came to a halt, was building a collection of 'approved >>>>>>> events'. we rate them as how strategically important for the >>>>>>> marketing plan was, and how much support it would get from the >>>>>>> previous marketing budget. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> FOSDEM was one of them, as well as OSWC and Latinoware to mention a >> few. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> We also thought about having dedicated speakers since they were >>>>>>> repeatably asked to give talks in their regions and were considered >> as >>>>>>> the "OpenOffice.org guy" in the FLOSS community. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I am not sure how this activity goes for or against things done on >>>>>>> Apache Way. But It was one of the ideas of the new Marketing Plan >>>>>>> (which also was >>>>>>> halted). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I think there were some policies on the way the money would be spent >>>>>>> such as, we could fund up to 50%, and only for traveling and hosting >>>>>>> (no food or drinks). Other rules were still being put in place. >>>>>> Before getting into too much detail, what about Louis' suggestion of a >>>>>> marketing entity that could raise money outside the scope of ASF? Of >> course >>>>>> there is nothing to stop anyone setting up such an entity, the >> question is >>>>>> the relationship with AOO as part of ASF. The view I have held for a >> long >>>>>> time is that some sort of liquid assets even if a relatively small >> amount >>>>>> would have a disproportionate effect when it comes to marketing and >>>>>> dissemination. I'm just not clear how that fits with the Apache Way >> if at >>>>>> all. >>>>> Some quick ideas: >>>>> >>>>> What exactly do we need to raise money for? Let's be sure it is not >>>>> already available with Apache. If it is event-oriented, it is good >>>>> idea to check on the ConCom lists. >>>>> >>>>> Have we availed ourselves of all the free marketing opportunities we >>>>> have? Why are we leaping to outside fundraising before writing blog >>>>> posts? Webinars? Why set up an outside marketing organization when >>>>> we have a magazine interview request that we have not yet responded >>>>> to? If we're not making optimal use of free, I wonder if we would >>>>> make good use of not-free? >>>> I think we have to use both. The old OOo Marketing costs more in a year >>>> then the ASF will give use in 10 years. Over the donation Buttons on our >>>> webpage the NGO's like OOoES, FroDeV (formar OOoDeV) and Team OpenOffice >>>> rised souveral 10'000 dollars per year. But it works also without this >>>> button. The Swiss NGO SAFFOS (Formar OpenOffice.org Switzerland) get get >>>> of money only with Company Memberships. The moast are Consultants and >>>> Education Companys. >>>> >>>> Blogs, Social Media etc are good instruments to do global Marketing. But >>>> if you want to come in contact with OOo Users, events are realy good. >>>> And there is maybe a big differance between IBM and a small Consultant >>>> group. IBM don't care much about small Companys. But for small >>>> consultants this is the daily bread. So they want to attemt local >> events. >>>>> If there is something specific we need, maybe we can get it donated to >> the ASF? >>>>> >>>>> It would be a very rare open source even that did not have at least >>>>> one Apache member present. >>>> Maybe in US. In Europe, Apache is nearly nowhere present. Not even at >>>> FLOSS Events. To compare: At good times, OOo was present at more then 15 >>>> events per year only in german speaching regions. Same of them with big >>>> impact like CeBIT. How many Events attent other Apache Projects here? >>>>> Maybe there is an opportunity to share >>>>> space at a table and reduce costs? Maybe we can help another project >>>>> be represented at a conference where it is easy and cheap for one of >>>>> our volunteers to attend, in return for them helping represent AOO at >>>>> a conference we are not able to make? >>>> Facing the fact Rob. The ASF Marketing has not enough financiel power to >>>> serve OOo Marketing. Also the ASF is not realy interested in end user >>>> Marketing. I like the ASF for development, but for Marketing we are at >>>> the wrong place here. >>>>> For 3rd party fundraising, we would need to tread very carefully here, >>>>> in terms of trademark use, avoiding appearance of affiliation or >>>>> endorsement, etc. We can't have an outside group raising and spending >>>>> money on behalf of an ASF project, claiming to speak for the ASF >>>>> project at conferences, using a name that suggests affiliation with >>>>> the ASF project, especially an exclusive relation, etc. So I have >>>>> serious doubts that an outside organization, with these constraints, >>>>> would have much luck raising funds. >>>> You have not to ask for donnations. I don't even think the organisation >>>> outside Apache should be a association. It could be samething >>>> semi-commercial like a corperative. I also don't like to reduce this >>>> structure to a Marketing structur. This structure could also collect >>>> money for feature implementation. This would be great, because small >>>> companys has at the moment no chance to make the product better. They >>>> are dammed to be visitors. >>>> >>>> I see no problem with Apache in this point. We have not to grant this >>>> organization exclousive rights. The only important thing is that we draw >>>> a clear line between Apache and this/those organization/s. >>> A serious recommendation: set up something on Yahoo Groups or Google >>> Groups. Send a single note to this list saying that you are proposing >>> a group to discuss the formation on an independent 3rd party >>> organization to fund independent development and marketing activities >>> related to Apache OpenOffice. And then continue all further >>> discussions on that list or whatever lists eventually come from that >>> discussion. >>> >>> IMHO it is impossible to draw a clear line between the organizations >>> while discussing them here on ooo-dev. I don't oppose such an >>> organization. But I do want it to be truly independent. >>> >>> Make sense? >> I see no problem, to discuse and share Ideas here. It's a good place to >> find the people. But for discoussion about the setup wi should use othe >> channels, that's right. > > +1, this is just brainstorming about something of common interest so at > this stage its best to be as public as possible. If there is a clear > proposal outside the scope of ASF then we should move it outside. >
OK. > The issue of funding people to take part in marketing has always been an > issue since the start of OOo. It might well be out of the scope of ASF but > it is certainly no disadvantage to be able to fund experienced people to > speak at important events. Is AOO different from other ASF projects in that > respect? Probably a) because of its size and b) because of its end-user > focus. In the spirit of brainstorming the, lets consider. I can imagine someone looking to fund development work, if they desire the outcome of that work. Ditto for translations. Maybe even a crowd-funded documentation effort. In all the cases their is a return to the person funding. But I'm having a hard time imagining a business model based on person A giving money to person B to market to person C. Maybe in the same sense someone might help fund a missionary. But this is very lean. And as we know LO has claimed moral superiority, so opportunities for FOSS sympathetic funding is diminished. Would a new organization with no history, no reputation, no affiliation with the project attract many donors? Not impossible, but not very encouraging, IMHO. An alternative, and perhaps complimentary, approach would be to make a concerted effort to attract more marketing volunteers. With more volunteers and greater geographical distribution, we'll have more opportunities and more flexibility. In any case I'm committed to a robust volunteer-led marketing effort within the project. A talented volunteer working on AOO can gain skills and build up a portfolio of accomplishments and a network of contacts that can help them in future employment prospects, even if not related to OpenOffice. I think this makes an attractive option for some. Obviously if I am successful and you are as well then AOO will be very well-marketed! Regards, -Rob > -- > Ian > > Ofqual Accredited IT Qualifications (The Schools ITQ) > > www.theINGOTs.org +44 (0)1827 305940 > > The Learning Machine Limited, Reg Office, 36 Ashby Road, Tamworth, > Staffordshire, B79 8AQ. Reg No: 05560797, Registered in England and > Wales.
