On Fri, Oct 19, 2012 at 4:26 PM, jan iversen <[email protected]>wrote:
> You give me a headache and a bad conscience over all the thing I could do > but have not (yet) done :-) > Sorry wasnt my intention, I just want to prevent that before throwing everything out and starting from scratch, at least read what was there so we dont need to go through the many gotchas again. > > I have put some comments below, in general the list was not only for l10n > but in general for new volunteers joining in. > > But to counter my headache, I hope you will be my active reviewer and > committer when my document and l10n web page is ready ? > > have a nice night. > jan > > On 19 October 2012 21:20, Alexandro Colorado <[email protected]> wrote: > > > On Fri, Oct 19, 2012 at 1:41 PM, jan iversen <[email protected] > > >wrote: > > > > > As agreed with Rob, I have put together a list of information, that > would > > > have me problems and time for all those that helped me. > > > > > > This list is just a starting point (all the information is out there, > so > > it > > > should just be a list with links) > > > > > > Suggested reading for all volunteers: > > > - Where do I find information (wiki, cwiki, mailing lists) ? > > > - What can I do to help ? > > > - How is the organization (contributor, committer etc....all the way up) > > ? > > > - Who is who ? (It would be good to have a list of the key persons) ? > > > - What are our relationship to other openOffice packages (can I use my > > > contribution elsewhere) ? > > > > > > Suggested reading for Wiki contributors > > > - Which writing rules do we have (do I change a page directly or use > > talk) > > > - How is the content controlled, basically I can write anything, are > > there > > > any QA ? > > > - How is the structure of Wiki ? (and temporary, which parts are old > and > > > outdated) ? > > > - Who do I contact if I have problems/questions/need guidance ? > > > > > > Suggested reading for a translator > > > - Where do I find correct information about localization (some wiki > pages > > > are misguiding, and l10n.openoffice.org is NOT a good starting point) > > > - Where can I see status of the ongoing translations ? > > > . Which tools do I need and how do I use them (any standards) ? > > > - Who do I contact to get started ? > > > > > > Suggested reading for a tester > > > - How can I help testing ? > > > - Is it possible to test in my native language ? > > > - Which tools do I need ? > > > - How do I report bugs ? > > > - Who do I contact, if I want to be a tester ? > > > > > > Suggested reading for a developer > > > - Where do I find guidance on how to write a source code (naming > > standards > > > etc.) ? > > > - Where do I find build instructions (I found 5 different for > > Ubuntu...the > > > last one was pretty good, but I still had to ask on dev for the last > bit > > (a > > > simple flag was wrong)) > > > - Where do I find source ? > > > - When do I need to use the sources, and when to use extensions ? > > > - Where do I find the bug reporting system ? > > > - How can I "reserve" a bug for me to solve ? > > > > > > > > > Then of course as you grow more into the community you get more > questions > > > (like CMS etc), but I think to cover that would be too much. > > > > > > > There is a bit of a dilema here, what to know where to point if we still > > not sure what will be there? > > > You are quite right, but that is no excuse for leaving all the old content > untouched and making people like me utterly confused. > > > > > > What I mean is that most of the l10n processes are not defined, so at the > > moment the only functional part is the mailing list. > > > I am getting there...I hope my wiki "Localization AOO" was a bit more than > just the mailing list, and I hope to have the new proposal ready no later > than monday...l10n web page is a bit more difficult, because I have to find > a way of making it new, without long discussions of what can go and what > should stay (my opinion is quite clear, doing something is better than to > sit on your hands). > Start by clasifying old content and links. Probably nobody would oppose to put >3.x info as archived content. > > > > > > No QaSTE, Pootle (still unstable), TCM (gone), Continuousl10n (non > > avialable anymore), Glossaries (gone as well). > > > Hold on, what is QaSte, Continousl10n, I might have been doing consultancy > job for/with Sun but in a different ballgame (Unix for PC). > Glossaries is a main part of my proposal. > Those were applications on Sun/Oracle servers that were tools of the l10n process. Some manuals are in the site some are in the wiki. But the apps no longer exist. We should review if these were also donated by oracle, or not, and if we want them back or go for an alternative and replace the process. > > > > > > So what do we have? Pootle has a process of 'only commiters' can provide > or > > QA the localized strings. > > > Just my words! > Do we want to keep it to only commiters? what if the commiter dont speak that language? there is nobody to approve the suggestion? > > > > > A think tank of a ML. > > > > This makes it somewhat easy... just calling everyone on the l10n list, > > however. Localization was a HUGE part of OOo, it worked closely with the > > NLC communities, as well as with QA and Release teams. So it was a hibrid > > of internationalization and engineering. So the process normally was a > > mixture of technical and community minded processes. So is important we > > take this into account in order to have a roadmap, and in order of this > > roadmap we should direct the future localization community into that > > direction. > > > I agree totally, Localization seems to be a stepson of AOO, which it for > sure isn´t !!! it needs to be an integrated part, which is why I started > writing documents. > > Why can´t you or even better we get that going again, I believe a lot of > translators/volunteers are out there just waiting to see what happens, so > lets make it happen....1+1 can be quite a lot more than 2 !! > We need a call for action on Dev list, reference to the site, present it in a manner is clear (your document), just make it easy to read and follow. Lengthy documents are such a ToDo. We need a: Do X, Do Y, Winning!! > > > > > So we need, engineers, we need localizaers, linguist, applications, and > > INFRA and things in that order to properly construct the infrastructure. > > > You am 1 engineer with plenty of spare time (I have stopped working for > money), and there seems to be plenty of volunteers out there who want to > help....what we really need is ORGANISATION, and that is where I come from > (having had my own companies for 20+ years), so again lets make this happen > ! > Ok I have done some cleanup already on l10n, nothing major just point to the current ML, label some sites as outdated and pointing them back to the ML page at incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg. Would probably need help changing all that to the top level domain now. > > > > > Either custom webapps or borrowed applications. An example is what > > LibreOffice did replacing TCM with an application called MozTrap: > > http://vm12.documentfoundation.org/manage/cases/ > > > You have a thorough knowledge which I can only hope to gain in the years to > come, but I think I have other skills to offer. > There are Quaste and TCM manuals on the site/wiki, please speed read them to make sure u know what this meant. > > > > > Glossaries are now handled on the wiki, which is not optimal as far as > > terminology management. > > > That is by far NOT optimal, glossary is of highly value and belongs in SVN > alongside with translations !! > Ok still, need to decide on the best methdology. * Maintaining an ods (binary) would be a pain. * svn is limited for contributors, we would make it hard for the casual contributor, so what to do? * There are some old glossaries on the site for English, Greek, Russian, and Servian on csv already on the l10n/localization/ folder. * Include this in pootle (Libo do this) you can see this for spanish https://translations.documentfoundation.org/es/ > > > > > Other non product related activities like website making it more flexible > > with language. We observed tools like localize.js which help manage the > > right locale for users. > > http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Website/Localization#Locale.js > > > > So think JS expertise as well and maybe some HTML5 geolocation > > intelligence. > > > > -- > > Alexandro Colorado > > PPMC Apache OpenOffice > > http://es.openoffice.org > > > > To sum it up, I like your comments a LOT, but let join up, build a team and > put actin behind the words. I as contributor and you as committor can by > catalysts to get things moving ! > > There are 3 big issues outstanding: > - get a more robust l10n workflow in place, > - get the l10n documentation in place, > - get the people involved back together. > > But all it takes is motivation and a couple of people with different skill > sets. > > Sorry for this a bit emotional mail, but after a long day with editing, I > cannot help thinking.....we need to be DOING and not just talking. > > have a nice night. > janI. > -- Alexandro Colorado PPMC Apache OpenOffice http://es.openoffice.org
