Ok - here is a suggestion. Would there be any interest in me setting up a Google Wave to develop the content of a possible Radiotherapy archetype? I have just been given a few Google Wave invitations to hand out.
This would be something of an experiment to see how well Wave might support (or confuse) a collaborative approach to early archetype development. I would be happy to facilitate the process and, for example, draw up an initial Mindmap but I would need a bit of help getting started in terms of Radiotherapy content. The general idea would be work on the mind map and associated wiki until we had enough consensus to develop a draft archetype to put up into CKM. It will obviously need input from people like Kevin who have some experience in this area but the intention is just to get the scope and general shape of a Radiotherapy archetype(s) outlined so it will not require anything like as much rigour (and demand on time) as the formal CKM review process. There is already some interest in the Google Wave community in developing eHeath standards and we could perhaps tap into that group to get a few more volunteers. It would also be a great way of getting more attention for openEHR and the work we are doing in CKM. For those of you unfamiliar with Google Wave - this is a pretty good intro http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDu2A3WzQpo&feature=player_embedded# Any takers? Let me know here or directly to ian.mcnicoll at oceaninformatics.com Ian Dr Ian McNicoll office / fax +44(0)141 560 4657 mobile +44 (0)775 209 7859 skype ianmcnicoll ian.mcnicoll at oceaninformatics.com ian at mcmi.co.uk Clinical Analyst Ocean Informatics openEHR Archetype Editorial Group Member BCS Primary Health Care SG Group www.phcsg.org / BCS Health Scotland 2009/11/11 Ian McNicoll <Ian.McNicoll at oceaninformatics.com> > Hi Melanie, > > There are a few interesting pieces of work around openEHR and research > repositories, including the Sintero project > http://www.openehr.org/288-OE.html?branch=1&language=1 > > This is now starting to get going and you should really have a chat to Ed > Conley, the project lead about possible collaboration, particularly around > archetype design, so that as far as possible any research derived data is > shareable across different research platforms. > > It is not always easy to decide the best approach for a particular piece of > clinical information in terms of separate archetype or specialisation , but > once you get a good maximal dataset around a particular concept the choices > normally become clearer. > This is why we often start the modelling process by looking for existing > data models e.g. for Radiotherapy and use Mindmaps to get a good feel for > the scope of the concept, well before we begin any formal archetype > modelling. > > At some stage we would like CKM to direct support this early stage of > 'informal' modelling using mindmaps and a more conversational. collaborative > style of debate between those who are interested in a particular topic. Part > of the goal is to encourage people to share ideas at an early stage without > feeling under pressure to come up with a publishable solution. By keeping > the discussions as public as possible, we avoid the danger of individuals > or groups working privately and independently on the same topic, with a > resulting clash of ideas and constructs. > > We are a bit away from providing this in CKM, but Google Wave has some of > the approach we might want to look at - mixture of email, chat, wiki + some > support for mindmaps. > > > > Ian > > Dr Ian McNicoll > office / fax +44(0)141 560 4657 > mobile +44 (0)775 209 7859 > skype ianmcnicoll > ian.mcnicoll at oceaninformatics.com > ian at mcmi.co.uk > > Clinical Analyst Ocean Informatics openEHR Archetype Editorial Group > Member BCS Primary Health Care SG Group www.phcsg.org / BCS Health > Scotland > > > > 2009/11/11 Melanie Spath <melanie.spath at gmail.com> > > Hi all, >> >> Thanks for the great advice, it is very helpful. >> >> I am actually aiming at developing "research" or "omic" archetypes (e.g. >> test results from experiments on patient specimen, e.g. from >> genomic/proteomic/metabolomic experiments etc.), since my background is in >> genetics. The reason for this is to be able to integrate clinical patient >> and scientific research data to support biomedical knowledge discovery. In >> this, I am collaborating with a prostate cancer bio-resource which collects >> specimen from prostate cancer patients. A biobank contains clinical patient >> information and the "omic" information. I am planning to use this biobank as >> a test-bed for an "archetyped" biobank information system. >> >> As a start I was trying to see how much of the clinical content in the >> biobank could be modelled with existing archetypes (to avoid duplicate >> effort) and to discover "holes". Some of the information could be modelled >> with existing archetypes (e.g. results of histopathological analysis with >> the openEHR-EHR-CLUSTER.microscopy_prostate_carcinoma.v1 archetype), but for >> others I could not find suitable archetypes (this in itself was not an easy >> task, I think there needs to be another discussion on a different >> thread/list about the difficulties of matching database fields to existing >> archetypes/fields in existing archetypes). I wasn't sure if the >> non-existence of archetypes for radio/hormone/chemotherapy was because they >> hadn't been developed yet or because it was envisaged that other existing >> archetypes could be used to model these (e.g. the INSTRUCTION.medication and >> INSTRUCTION.non_drug_therapy ones). >> >> Until then, in the presence of these "holes", my approach will be to use >> "placeholder" archetypes that hold the minimum needed information for this >> specific case e.g. for radio/hormone/chemotherapy as discussed above, until >> experts have agreed on their general suitable structure. I am welcoming any >> developments in this area. >> >> Thank you for your help. >> >> Best regards, >> Melanie. >> >> >> >> >> >> On Wed, Nov 11, 2009 at 1:16 AM, Heather Leslie < >> heather.leslie at oceaninformatics.com> wrote: >> >>> Hi Melanie, >>> >>> I see some great comments from Ian and Kevin so far - thanks. >>> >>> You aren't starting with anything simple ;-) - this is a very complicated >>> domain and hopefully you will have access to some oncological advice and >>> resources as well. >>> >>> The Medication archetype is a great starting point. Please be aware that >>> we are doing some work at the moment to try to bring the Medication family - >>> Instruction, Action and the common description up for collaborative review >>> in CKM soon. We are trying to harmonise the current archetype with many >>> requirements and standards so that we can try to streamline the review >>> process, but I expect that we will find it to be one of our harder >>> archetypes to get agreement on. Keep an eye out, and adopt the archetypes if >>> you would like to participate in the review when initiated. >>> >>> Intravenous orders and administration of drugs adds a further degree of >>> complexity, and most of your chemo will likely be needing this extra >>> functionality. Plus some of these chemo instructions will be complex >>> orders, potentially with a number of activities within the one order. Some >>> routes may be atypical eg intrathecal etc. >>> >>> Hormone therapy - hmm trying to remember back... Certainly many will be >>> simple oral medication instructions/actions; some will be IV (as above). We >>> need some expert advice here to determine if there are additional >>> requirements for some hormone therapy that exceed these identified use >>> cases. >>> >>> Radiotherapy is a completely separate area, and as Kevin/Ian suggest, you >>> need to determine the scope here - potentially it is a whole domain of >>> medicine! I would suggest you mindmap your requirements for recording as a >>> starting point, and from there you should be able to identify the potential >>> archetypes that need development - it may be more than one >>> instruction/action eg related measurements etc requiring recording in an >>> Observation archetype. >>> >>> regards >>> >>> Heather >>> >>> >>> On 11/11/2009 2:44 AM, Melanie Spath wrote: >>> >>> Hi, >>> >>> I'm trying to archetype patient records in a prostate cancer >>> environment. I see that there are currently no specific archetypes for >>> common cancer treatments such as radiotherapy, hormone therapy and >>> chemotherapy. Could hormone therapy and chemotherapy be described as >>> specializations of the openEHR-EHR-INSTRUCTION.medication.v1 >>> archetype? And could radiotherapy be described with a specialization >>> of openEHR-EHR-INSTRUCTION.non_ >>> drug_therapy.v1? Or should these be >>> described in completely new archetypes (e.g. INSTRUCTION.radiotherapy/ >>> hormone_therapy/chemotherapy)? >>> >>> Thanks for your help, >>> Melanie Spath. >>> >>> PhD Candidate >>> >>> Centre for Health Informatics >>> School of Computer Science & Statistics >>> Trinity College Dublin >>> Dublin 2, Ireland >>> _______________________________________________ >>> openEHR-clinical mailing list >>> openEHR-clinical at >>> openehr.orghttp://lists.chime.ucl.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/openehr-clinical >>> >>> >>> >>> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature >>> database 4593 (20091110) __________ >>> >>> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >>> http://www.eset.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> *Dr Heather Leslie* >>> MBBS FRACGP FACHI >>> Director of Clinical Modelling >>> *Ocean Informatics <http://www.oceaninformatics.com/>* >>> Phone (Aust) +61 (0)418 966 670 >>> Skype - heatherleslie >>> Twitter - @omowizard >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> openEHR-clinical mailing list >>> openEHR-clinical at openehr.org >>> http://lists.chime.ucl.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/openehr-clinical >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> openEHR-clinical mailing list >> openEHR-clinical at openehr.org >> http://lists.chime.ucl.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/openehr-clinical >> > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... 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