Ian, Haven't used Google Wave myself yet and guess it's still at the innovator/early adopter stage. But what about starting with something that people are used to, like normal Internet Messaging? I am available on melanie.spath at gmail.com on google chat. Otherwise, if people are brave enough, I'd like a GW invitation also.
Mel. On Wed, Nov 11, 2009 at 5:13 PM, Ian McNicoll < Ian.McNicoll at oceaninformatics.com> wrote: > Ok - here is a suggestion. > > Would there be any interest in me setting up a Google Wave to develop the > content of a possible Radiotherapy archetype? I have just been given a few > Google Wave invitations to hand out. > > This would be something of an experiment to see how well Wave might support > (or confuse) a collaborative approach to early archetype development. > > I would be happy to facilitate the process and, for example, draw up an > initial Mindmap but I would need a bit of help getting started in terms of > Radiotherapy content. The general idea would be work on the mind map and > associated wiki until we had enough consensus to develop a draft archetype > to put up into CKM. > > It will obviously need input from people like Kevin who have some > experience in this area but the intention is just to get the scope and > general shape of a Radiotherapy archetype(s) outlined so it will not require > anything like as much rigour (and demand on time) as the formal CKM review > process. > > There is already some interest in the Google Wave community in developing > eHeath standards and we could perhaps tap into that group to get a few more > volunteers. It would also be a great way of getting more attention for > openEHR and the work we are doing in CKM. > > For those of you unfamiliar with Google Wave - this is a pretty good intro > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDu2A3WzQpo&feature=player_embedded# > > Any takers? Let me know here or directly to > ian.mcnicoll at oceaninformatics.com > > > Ian > > > Dr Ian McNicoll > office / fax +44(0)141 560 4657 > mobile +44 (0)775 209 7859 > skype ianmcnicoll > ian.mcnicoll at oceaninformatics.com > ian at mcmi.co.uk > > Clinical Analyst Ocean Informatics openEHR Archetype Editorial Group > Member BCS Primary Health Care SG Group www.phcsg.org / BCS Health > Scotland > > > > 2009/11/11 Ian McNicoll <Ian.McNicoll at oceaninformatics.com> > > Hi Melanie, >> >> There are a few interesting pieces of work around openEHR and research >> repositories, including the Sintero project >> http://www.openehr.org/288-OE.html?branch=1&language=1 >> >> This is now starting to get going and you should really have a chat to Ed >> Conley, the project lead about possible collaboration, particularly around >> archetype design, so that as far as possible any research derived data is >> shareable across different research platforms. >> >> It is not always easy to decide the best approach for a particular piece >> of clinical information in terms of separate archetype or specialisation , >> but once you get a good maximal dataset around a particular concept the >> choices normally become clearer. >> This is why we often start the modelling process by looking for existing >> data models e.g. for Radiotherapy and use Mindmaps to get a good feel for >> the scope of the concept, well before we begin any formal archetype >> modelling. >> >> At some stage we would like CKM to direct support this early stage of >> 'informal' modelling using mindmaps and a more conversational. collaborative >> style of debate between those who are interested in a particular topic. Part >> of the goal is to encourage people to share ideas at an early stage without >> feeling under pressure to come up with a publishable solution. By keeping >> the discussions as public as possible, we avoid the danger of individuals >> or groups working privately and independently on the same topic, with a >> resulting clash of ideas and constructs. >> >> We are a bit away from providing this in CKM, but Google Wave has some of >> the approach we might want to look at - mixture of email, chat, wiki + some >> support for mindmaps. >> >> >> >> Ian >> >> Dr Ian McNicoll >> office / fax +44(0)141 560 4657 >> mobile +44 (0)775 209 7859 >> skype ianmcnicoll >> ian.mcnicoll at oceaninformatics.com >> ian at mcmi.co.uk >> >> Clinical Analyst Ocean Informatics openEHR Archetype Editorial Group >> Member BCS Primary Health Care SG Group www.phcsg.org / BCS Health >> Scotland >> >> >> >> 2009/11/11 Melanie Spath <melanie.spath at gmail.com> >> >> Hi all, >>> >>> Thanks for the great advice, it is very helpful. >>> >>> I am actually aiming at developing "research" or "omic" archetypes (e.g. >>> test results from experiments on patient specimen, e.g. from >>> genomic/proteomic/metabolomic experiments etc.), since my background is in >>> genetics. The reason for this is to be able to integrate clinical patient >>> and scientific research data to support biomedical knowledge discovery. In >>> this, I am collaborating with a prostate cancer bio-resource which collects >>> specimen from prostate cancer patients. A biobank contains clinical patient >>> information and the "omic" information. I am planning to use this biobank as >>> a test-bed for an "archetyped" biobank information system. >>> >>> As a start I was trying to see how much of the clinical content in the >>> biobank could be modelled with existing archetypes (to avoid duplicate >>> effort) and to discover "holes". Some of the information could be modelled >>> with existing archetypes (e.g. results of histopathological analysis with >>> the openEHR-EHR-CLUSTER.microscopy_prostate_carcinoma.v1 archetype), but for >>> others I could not find suitable archetypes (this in itself was not an easy >>> task, I think there needs to be another discussion on a different >>> thread/list about the difficulties of matching database fields to existing >>> archetypes/fields in existing archetypes). I wasn't sure if the >>> non-existence of archetypes for radio/hormone/chemotherapy was because they >>> hadn't been developed yet or because it was envisaged that other existing >>> archetypes could be used to model these (e.g. the INSTRUCTION.medication and >>> INSTRUCTION.non_drug_therapy ones). >>> >>> Until then, in the presence of these "holes", my approach will be to use >>> "placeholder" archetypes that hold the minimum needed information for this >>> specific case e.g. for radio/hormone/chemotherapy as discussed above, until >>> experts have agreed on their general suitable structure. I am welcoming any >>> developments in this area. >>> >>> Thank you for your help. >>> >>> Best regards, >>> Melanie. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Nov 11, 2009 at 1:16 AM, Heather Leslie < >>> heather.leslie at oceaninformatics.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi Melanie, >>>> >>>> I see some great comments from Ian and Kevin so far - thanks. >>>> >>>> You aren't starting with anything simple ;-) - this is a very >>>> complicated domain and hopefully you will have access to some oncological >>>> advice and resources as well. >>>> >>>> The Medication archetype is a great starting point. Please be aware >>>> that we are doing some work at the moment to try to bring the Medication >>>> family - Instruction, Action and the common description up for >>>> collaborative >>>> review in CKM soon. We are trying to harmonise the current archetype with >>>> many requirements and standards so that we can try to streamline the review >>>> process, but I expect that we will find it to be one of our harder >>>> archetypes to get agreement on. Keep an eye out, and adopt the archetypes >>>> if >>>> you would like to participate in the review when initiated. >>>> >>>> Intravenous orders and administration of drugs adds a further degree of >>>> complexity, and most of your chemo will likely be needing this extra >>>> functionality. Plus some of these chemo instructions will be complex >>>> orders, potentially with a number of activities within the one order. Some >>>> routes may be atypical eg intrathecal etc. >>>> >>>> Hormone therapy - hmm trying to remember back... Certainly many will be >>>> simple oral medication instructions/actions; some will be IV (as above). >>>> We >>>> need some expert advice here to determine if there are additional >>>> requirements for some hormone therapy that exceed these identified use >>>> cases. >>>> >>>> Radiotherapy is a completely separate area, and as Kevin/Ian suggest, >>>> you need to determine the scope here - potentially it is a whole domain of >>>> medicine! I would suggest you mindmap your requirements for recording as a >>>> starting point, and from there you should be able to identify the potential >>>> archetypes that need development - it may be more than one >>>> instruction/action eg related measurements etc requiring recording in an >>>> Observation archetype. >>>> >>>> regards >>>> >>>> Heather >>>> >>>> >>>> On 11/11/2009 2:44 AM, Melanie Spath wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> I'm trying to archetype patient records in a prostate cancer >>>> environment. I see that there are currently no specific archetypes for >>>> common cancer treatments such as radiotherapy, hormone therapy and >>>> chemotherapy. Could hormone therapy and chemotherapy be described as >>>> specializations of the openEHR-EHR-INSTRUCTION.medication.v1 >>>> archetype? And could radiotherapy be described with a specialization >>>> of openEHR-EHR-INSTRUCTION.non_ >>>> drug_therapy.v1? Or should these be >>>> described in completely new archetypes (e.g. INSTRUCTION.radiotherapy/ >>>> hormone_therapy/chemotherapy)? >>>> >>>> Thanks for your help, >>>> Melanie Spath. >>>> >>>> PhD Candidate >>>> >>>> Centre for Health Informatics >>>> School of Computer Science & Statistics >>>> Trinity College Dublin >>>> Dublin 2, Ireland >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> openEHR-clinical mailing list >>>> openEHR-clinical at >>>> openehr.orghttp://lists.chime.ucl.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/openehr-clinical >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >>>> signature database 4593 (20091110) __________ >>>> >>>> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >>>> http://www.eset.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> >>>> *Dr Heather Leslie* >>>> MBBS FRACGP FACHI >>>> Director of Clinical Modelling >>>> *Ocean Informatics <http://www.oceaninformatics.com/>* >>>> Phone (Aust) +61 (0)418 966 670 >>>> Skype - heatherleslie >>>> Twitter - @omowizard >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> openEHR-clinical mailing list >>>> openEHR-clinical at openehr.org >>>> http://lists.chime.ucl.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/openehr-clinical >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> openEHR-clinical mailing list >>> openEHR-clinical at openehr.org >>> http://lists.chime.ucl.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/openehr-clinical >>> >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > openEHR-clinical mailing list > openEHR-clinical at openehr.org > http://lists.chime.ucl.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/openehr-clinical > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... 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