On Sun, 18 Feb 2001 01:11:32 Georg Lehner wrote:
>Hello!
>
>After the first glance over Macanova it seems to me, that it does the
>"same" task as R. It is a statistical calculator with graphics
>capabilities. It can do lesser sofisticated grafics on a broader range
>of platforms/configurations then R.
What about extensibility and support among statisticians and community of users? Which
(R vs. Macanova) has a larger library of statistical routines which is easier to write
new routines for?
>Data - feed has to be handled via Ascii-files by the user. So Macanova
>is just on more in the list (PSPP, R, Macanova,...).
Most stats packages are weak in this area. When we get OIO to integrate well with R or
Macanova, then we will get to see how useful this type of integration can be.
>What is still missing is the link between On the fly - User-Interface
>and database builders like OIO, Epiinfo and these programs.
When we have integration of OIO with R, we will have on-the-fly study design (with
automatic database setup), web-based data collection, data/study management, and
extensible statistical library for online data analysis analysis.
>Btw. I stumbled over plan/netplan and xmbase-grok
>yesterday. xmbase-grok has a Form/Mask-bilder for textual databases. I
>didn't grok it just out of the box, but it atracted me heavily because
>it seems ligthweight and easy to use.
But it is not web-based. Also, as a database system, it is far more limited than
PostgreSQL, mySQL, etc.
>On Sat, Feb 17, 2001 at 08:45:31AM -0800, Andrew po-jung Ho wrote:
>...
>
>> That sounds really good! Why not just use OIO's browser and
>> database interface? Assuming that R can already access a database
>
>For my point of view OIO IS atractive. Drawback is the need of a
>Webserver, even on a standalone computer -> No trivial installation.
Actually, Zope comes with its own web-server. For stand-alone application, there is no
need to run Apache. I am currently using Apache with Zope primarily because Apache
provides more mature SSL-support. For standalone installation, SSL is not needed --
therefore, Apache is not needed.
>Maybe I will have to get closer to the OIO background, it seems to
>implement especially the first two parts of the triad:
>Form/Database-design --- Data-recollection --- Analysis
OIO already has some online analysis capabilites. However, it is desirable to
capitalize on existing systems such as R to provide as much statistical routines as
possible.
>> (e.g. PostgreSQL), all we need to do then is to provide additional
>> screens through the OIO to interface with routines written in R
>> (i.e. using a Zope to R adapter).
>
>R does not have a Database interface, but OIO could
> a) create ascii tables from the (Postgresql) database
Do you mean a comma-delimited text file?
> b) create R-routines to analyze them
Can you point me to reading material that describes the format of the routines?
> c) feed both to "exec R"
And get the result (output from R) back into Zope.
>(Replace R with any of the statistical calculators on the list).
Right.
>to get the whole power of statistics and graphics, without bloating
>itself with this functionality.
Right. No need to re-invent the wheel.
>> Although the Tcl/Tk interface is more powerful than the browser
>> interface, I am not convinced that the browser interface is
>> inadequate for most, if not all, data analysis functions. ...
>
>No, Not at all inadequate. I find the browser interface very adequate
>for networked application areas.
If the browser interface is adequate for networked applications, then it is adequate
also for non-networked applications! :-). A "more than adequate"=superior non-browser
interface certainly could be built but that can come later.
>Tcl/Tk is "too" powerfull for the common user (for me) to
>handle it for on the fly Data recollection.
>I chose it for portability, and for curiosity, maybe also because it
>does look less like "C" and "Object Oriented" than Python :) (have you
>yet compared Go and Chess?)
I suppose you compare C to Go? The bigger issue for me is "the most bang for the
buck". This mean an adequate browser-interface that will scale all the way from the
desktop to multi-user environment is more useful than any "awesome" desktop interface.
>Tcl/Tk could be a prototype language for porting OIO to a not-web-based
>environment. It has all you need for this.
I agree. However, for most desktop/connected environments, OIO on Zope with
browser-based interface is adequate. All contemporary hardware and OS are more than
adequate to run OIO server on Zope (I have used Pentium 200 32MB with 500MB hard
drive)!
An exception is the Palm Pilot - which I think requires either a C or Java
implementation of OIO without Zope. I am working on a Java version now and have just
completed most of the user interface. I am working on "server-to-server" communication
now and can certainly use some help if anyone is interested.
Andrew
---
Andrew P. Ho, M.D.
OIO: Open Infrastructure for Outcomes
www.TxOutcome.Org
Assistant Clinical Professor
Department of Psychiatry, Harbor-UCLA Medical Center
University of California, Los Angeles
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