Hi Tim,
Thanks for your message; I was just chatting with a friend of mine from openEHR and he told me about your qualities regarding promotion of Public Health and Open Source...I appreciate and respect that; but what bothers me with your recent post though is how this challenge/criticism is made: I am perfectly happy with criticism in a constructive/respectful and not neccesarily professional way...This was unfortunately not what happened with that message :-( So I recommend that for further discussion on this matter we continue personally; I do not find it relevant for the objectives of the discussion list. Talking about "Takin' it serious", it is our work and achievements and the reaction of the society that show how serious we are; not the words that we spend...I choose to remain exclusively an amateur after having first an M.D. degree, then Ph.D. work on Molecular Biology and Genetics with emphasis on Bioinformatics and evolutionary genetics (thesis not submitted), then second Ph.D. degree now on Information Systems (thesis to be submitted hopefully soon)...What I learned from all this academic work is that the more you specialize into a particular field the more (not neccesarily all) you lose your vision of the whole picture...It is true for professionalism too: By definition professionalism is not - repeat NOT expertise on a particular field but means earning monetary gains from it. Which mostly puts many of those into a bias for the goals of free enterprise.... So after expressing the dangerous ideas; here is another one: I can perfectly hypothetise that all the knowledge to bring about a near "perfect" Health Information Infrastructure -not neccesarily Open Source; that is why we had chosen to do a "Controlled Open Source Implementation" in the CEREBRUS project - is at our disposal...It is all about gathering bits and pieces from Medical, Genetic, Histologic, Physiologic, Behavioral domains and use "Informatics" as a tool to bind them all together.... It is the right-time, and the question is who and how??? CEREBRUS is now left as a vision till we find some kind of funding but you might want to look at how we approach the problem and propose the solution: http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=129417 <http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=129417&package_id=144 571&release_id=310428> &package_id=144571&release_id=310428 I am also strongly opposing to the idea of bringing along concepts like Health Informatics, Medical Informatics or Informatics of any flavor and defend that it is basic science...Well the only basic science I claim is the pure "Informatics"....The rest is just "Applied Science"....That is why I am proud to do an Informatics graduate study instead of Health/Medical/Biomedical Informatics...Also I still think too much security sucks and kills innovation after having experience in Anatomic Pathology for 10 years...My IS does not have ACL and it survived...BTW by survival I mean survival of IS not people... Any comments? Best regards, Dr. Koray Atalag _____ From: openhealth@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tim.Churches Sent: Sunday, January 08, 2006 11:23 AM To: openhealth@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [openhealth] RE: The Question Koray Atalag wrote: > Oops...Sorry, I thought this was a free discussion list....Never mind my > thoughts and keep goin... OK. It's just that some of us treat open source healthcare software as a serious matter, and thus we can't leave expressed thoughts such as yours unchallenged, particularly when expressed on an publically archived mailing list which is indexed by search engines, even when signposted as "dangerous". Well, I can't. Everyone is free to think and express their thoughts on this mailing list, but they must also be prepared to have them challenged and questioned (in a polite, professional manner, of course). Tim C > From: openhealth@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of Tim.Churches > Sent: Sunday, January 08, 2006 10:00 AM > To: openhealth@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [openhealth] RE: The Question > > > > Koray Atalag wrote: > > Q4: When we stop talking about security in healthcare information systems > > and start doing something that makes sense instead of inhibiting the > > innovation? > > Golden rule of medicine: first do no harm. > > > Q6: When we start using skype (or some other free > > communication/collaboration tools) instead of making already giant telecom > > companies even stronger? > > Note that Skype is definitely not open source. > > > P.S. Also regarding QA and Testing in SW I want to ask the question: Has > the > > nature made any testing before releasing Homo Sapiens V1.0 on earth? > > Yes, a few millions of years of hominid evolution to get the bugs out, > but the basic subroutines initially appeared nearly a billion years > earlier than that (archaebacteria are that old, aren't they?). At least > 500 million years. > > > So why > > we bother? Just release and see if it survives... > > You mean see if the patient survives the incorrect or absent information > provided by the untested healthcare software? That's why it is necessary > to bother, you see. > > > (of course not the > > embedded SW of some pacemaker or ICU devices! That's another story.... > > Actually its not another story. And you were trying to organise a bid > for tens of million of Euros to develop open source healthcare software? > > Tim C > > > From: openhealth@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > > Behalf Of John Norris > > Sent: Sunday, January 08, 2006 7:27 AM > > To: openhealth@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [openhealth] RE: The Question > > > > > > > > Great topic! Here's one- > > > > When will more not-for-profit medical organizations band together and > share > > in the development of open source software for their common interests? > > > > Dangerous in that I think it is disruptive and inevitable. > > > > John > > ***** > > Art, Information, and Ceramics. > > http://www.john-norris.net > > ***** > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > YAHOO! 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