Tim, We got a good glimpse of a position from Molly Cheah. How about yourself?
p.s. I'm very reasonable, but curious. Cheers, Mike Tim Churches wrote: > > Molly Cheah wrote: > > And Tim, please do me a favour by emailing the Hon Secretary of PCDOM at > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:pcdom%40ocdom.org.my> rather than stating > on these mailing lists and tell > > them that you believe that PCDOM's promotion of PrimaCare as an open > > source tool is not correct, thus implying that PCDOM is unethical. > > I have forwarded a copy of my previous post to the PCDOM address you > give. As I said, PCDOM needs to be very cautious and ultra-scrupulous > about how it represents its PrimaCare software, simply because you are > the President of both PCDOM and OSHCA. If that nexus didn't exist, i > would not be particularly concerned. > > Tim Churches > > > Molly Cheah wrote: > >> No Tim. That was Tims' intepretation of what is open source. Frankly, > >> PCDOM was being careful of building up its business model and its > >> strategic alliances with organisations to ensure sustainability and > >> accountability issues which are being built into its PCDOM PrimaCare > >> Public License; one that is similar to OpenMRS's Public License. > >> (Please see OpenMRS's license as guide if you are that interested at > >> http://www.openmrs.org <http://www.openmrs.org>) Admittedly PCDOM > is slower that OpenMRS > >> efforts but really we didn't wanted to be "torched" like the past > >> experiences of other open source projects promoted especially by > >> individuals. Like I said PCDOM will make that available when they are > >> ready, not by being harrassed by the so-called open source > >> individuals. PCDOM, as a professional organisation, unlike individuals > >> who promote a particular application which folds up and can go away, > >> were advised to take sufficient steps in its licensing to ensure that > >> it is indemnified for the freedom to make changes by others that > >> compromise patient safety. Currently the law in Malaysia on patient > >> safety does not recognise statements that does or does not provide > >> warranty of the application (tool) used in patient care. > >> > >> I will bring this issue to the attention of the PCDOM Committee at > >> their next meeting for their action. > >> > >> Molly > >> Tim Cook wrote: > >>> Thanks for the clarification that Primacare is not open source. > >>> > >>> Regards, > >>> Tim > >>> > >>> > >>> On Sat, 2007-12-01 at 12:57 +1100, Tim Churches wrote: > >>> > >>>> Molly Cheah wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> Dear all, > >>>>> In view of the type of posts to these lists and that I do not wish > >>>>> > >>>> to be > >>>> > >>>>> drawn to the same type of exchanges that led to the demise of OSHCA > >>>>> > >>>> from > >>>> > >>>>> 2003-2006, I would like to make the following statement. Besides, I > >>>>> > >>>> do > >>>> > >>>>> not have the time, interest and energy to do this, particularly for > >>>>> > >>>> the > >>>> > >>>>> next 2-3 weeks. > >>>>> > >>>>> I was given the mandate to resurrect OSHCA with the following > >>>>> > >>>> outcomes. > >>>> > >>>>> 1. To register OSHCA in a developing country. (Done) > >>>>> 2. To organise OSHCA conference after registration (Done) > >>>>> 3. To obtain funding to organise the OSHCA conference (Done) > >>>>> 4. To take over oshca.org from Minouru Corporation for OSHCA (Done) > >>>>> > >>>>> I am a member of OSHCA in my personal capacity. Though I am the > >>>>> President of PCDOM, PCDOM's membership (as Associate, NGO) is being > >>>>> represented by PCDOM's Hon. Secretary. PCDOM's ownership of > >>>>> > >>>> PrimaCare > >>>> > >>>>> and therefore its policies, rights and freedom to manage and sustain > >>>>> PrimaCare is governed by its constitution and its contract with the > >>>>> Malaysian Government who funded the development of PrimaCare solely > >>>>> > >>>> for > >>>> > >>>>> the use of GPs in Malaysia. As an advocate of open source, I was > >>>>> instrumental (not sole decision maker) in getting PCDOM to agree to > >>>>> develop PrimaCare using an entire stack of open source software. I > >>>>> > >>>> was > >>>> > >>>>> invited to present PrimaCare at OSHCA2002 at LA. That was the start > >>>>> > >>>> of > >>>> > >>>>> my association with OSHCA. If one looks at any presentations of > >>>>> PrimaCare anywhere and anytime, it was never mentioned that > >>>>> > >>>> PrimaCare > >>>> > >>>>> was released under GPL. In fact PrimaCare was never released except > >>>>> > >>>> to > >>>> > >>>>> GPs in Malaysia. My past verbal statements had always been that the > >>>>> principles underlying the GPL can be applied to the manner we > >>>>> > >>>> currently > >>>> > >>>>> distribute PrimaCare to GPs. However, PCDOM has its legal commitment > >>>>> > >>>> to > >>>> > >>>>> the Malaysian Government, its community being the GPs in Malaysia > >>>>> > >>>> and no > >>>> > >>>>> one else. However, PCDOM is interested in making PrimaCare available > >>>>> > >>>> to > >>>> > >>>>> organisations outside Malaysia under an appropriate open source > >>>>> > >>>> license > >>>> > >>>>> (with Malaysian Govt approval). > >>>>> > >>>> Thank you for that clarification, Dr Cheah. I only wish you had > >>>> deigned > >>>> to respond several weeks ago, when these issues were first raised, > >>>> rather than treat us all with what I can only regard as a truculent > >>>> silence. > >>>> > >>>> Anyway, at least we are all now absolutely clear that PCDOM PrimaCare > >>>> is > >>>> not an open source application: it is not freely available under an > >>>> open > >>>> source license. Phew, that was like getting blood out of a stone, but > >>>> mission accomplished! > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>>> *Article 4 - Aims and Objectives* > >>>>>> > >>>>>> OSHCA is a non-profit organisation that provides the collaborative > >>>>>> platform and forum to promote and facilitate Free/Open Source > >>>>>> > >>>> Software > >>>> > >>>>>> in Health Care. OSHCA's membership comprises a community of people, > >>>>>> civil societies and professional bodies in health care and > >>>>>> > >>>> informatics > >>>> > >>>>>> industries that promotes the Free/Open Source Software Concepts in > >>>>>> Health Care. OSHCA helps policy makers, commercial enterprises, and > >>>>>> users take advantage of the benefits of Free/Open Source Software. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> *4.1 - Vision:* > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Free/Open Source Health Care Software will provide a viable and > >>>>>> sustainable alternative in mainstream Information and Communication > >>>>>> Technologies (ICT) for positive impact in health outcomes as > >>>>>> > >>>> adjunct > >>>> > >>>>>> to building a global knowledge society. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> *4.2 - **Mission:* > >>>>>> > >>>>>> *4.2.1 - *Promote to policy makers the concept of Free/Open Source > >>>>>> Software in Health Care so as to adopt or give equal opportunity to > >>>>>> Free/Open Source Solutions. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> *4.2.2 - *Provide leadership role in refining the Free/Open Source > >>>>>> Software Concepts as applied to health care to ensure best > >>>>>> > >>>> practices > >>>> > >>>>>> and patient safety are not compromised. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> *4.2.3 - *Make recommendations on the development and use of Health > >>>>>> Information Standards for data interchange and representation > >>>>>> > >>>> formalisms. > >>>> > >>>>>> *4.2.4 - *Provide Guidelines for Quality Control on Free/Open > >>>>>> > >>>> Source > >>>> > >>>>>> Health Care Software development. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> *4.2.5 - *Participate in and support Human Capacity Building, > >>>>>> including contributing/participating in project proposals and > >>>>>> > >>>> project > >>>> > >>>>>> management to achieve developing country priorities. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> *4.2.6 - *Enable collaboration of members including, sharing > >>>>>> > >>>> technical > >>>> > >>>>>> knowledge in Free/Open Source Health Care Projects and providing > >>>>>> Information Resources to Free/Open Source Health Care software > >>>>>> developers. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> *4.2.7 - *Promote and help the formation of development consortia > >>>>>> > >>>> for > >>>> > >>>>>> health care related projects, including assisting in finding > >>>>>> > >>>> funding > >>>> > >>>>>> for projects to reach critical mass for a visible and lasting > >>>>>> > >>>> impact > >>>> > >>>>>> on health related Millennium Development Goals (MDGs). > >>>>>> > >>>>>> *4.2.8 - *Use collaboration with strategic organisations with > >>>>>> compatible goals as a means of achieving the mission. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> 4.3 - Principles > >>>>>> > >>>>>> *4.3.1 - Promote a globally sustainable approach to building **ICT > >>>>>> solutions for health care* > >>>>>> Free/Open Source Software development encourages global > >>>>>> > >>>> collaboration. > >>>> > >>>>>> OSHCA will encourage approaches that seek active participation in > >>>>>> Free/Open Source Software development in health care by users, > >>>>>> developers, and policy makers from all parts of the world. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> *4.3.2 - Stay lightweight and flexible* > >>>>>> > >>>>>> *In the spirit of Free/Open Source where development is user and > >>>>>> > >>>> needs > >>>> > >>>>>> driven, facilitation needs to support highly desirable dynamism, > >>>>>> adaptability, and flexibility. This approach seeks to facilitate > >>>>>> natural processes that produce better quality, usability, > >>>>>> > >>>> longevity, > >>>> > >>>>>> maintainability and cost effectiveness.* > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> *4.3.3 - Be open to diverse opinions and technologies* > >>>>>> > >>>>>> *OSHCA is inclusive of all health care-related Free/Open Source > >>>>>> activities. In a Free/Open Source world, the success of an idea, > >>>>>> standard, or product is measured by its practical use.* > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> *4.3.4 - Ethical Deployment & Maintaining Standards* > >>>>>> > >>>>>> OSHCA's focus is the legal and ethical deployment of reliable and > >>>>>> robust Free/Open Source systems in all areas of health care. This > >>>>>> means taking a leadership role to ensure standards are maintained, > >>>>>> > >>>> and > >>>> > >>>>>> working with legislative and standards bodies to encourage the > >>>>>> inclusion of Free/Open Source principles in their policies. > >>>>>> > >>>> Reading through those aims and objectives, I now very clearly > perceive > >>>> a > >>>> mix of goals, specifically the difference between phrases such as > >>>> these: > >>>> > >>>> a) "...promote and facilitate Free/Open Source Software in Health > >>>> Care" > >>>> b) "...promotes the Free/Open Source Software Concepts in Health > >>>> Care." > >>>> c) "OSHCA helps policy makers, commercial enterprises, and users take > >>>> advantage of the benefits of Free/Open Source Software." > >>>> > >>>> and these: > >>>> > >>>> d) "Free/Open Source Health Care Software" > >>>> e) "...Free/Open Source Health Care Software development" > >>>> f) "Free/Open Source Software development in health care by users, > >>>> developers, and policy makers from all parts of the world." > >>>> > >>>> I think there is room for, and a need for, an organisation which > >>>> concentrates on the strategic goal of promoting the development and > >>>> release of open source health care software, rather than on the more > >>>> limited tactical goal of promoting the use of open source software in > >>>> health care settings. > >>>> > >>>> Or can both these goals be accommodated within OSHCA? > >>>> > >>>> Tim Churches > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> oshca_members mailing list > >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:oshca_members%40oshca.org> > >> http://mailman.oshca.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/oshca_members > <http://mailman.oshca.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/oshca_members> > >> > >> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > oshca_members mailing list > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:oshca_members%40oshca.org> > > http://mailman.oshca.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/oshca_members > <http://mailman.oshca.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/oshca_members> > > > >
