Seth,
THANK YOU!
I needed to know that. However, when did this all change? (I know, I
could read the RELEASE NOTES etc, but it's easier is someone who knows
just tells me. :-) ) Here's the thing, I was trying to get OpenNMS
1.14 working with all the versions of JDK and they all failed on FreeBSD.
I assume the advanced features continued to be implemented from 1.10 to
1.14. Now, I can at least get some idea of where to start. I might be
able to track this down to things that were implemented in a certain
version from 1.10 to 1.14.
I don't know how long I'll be able to use openjdk6 before having to go
to openjdk7 on 1.1x, but at least it's a start. Like I said, I'm more
than willing to help assist in this.
Do you think that I should be able to use openjdk7 from 1.10 going
forward? Is JDK 1.7 backward compatible with everything in 1.6? If so,
I should just start 1.7 on OpenNMS 1.10 and go forward from there. Is
that a good plan?
On 03/30/2015 19:42, Seth Leger wrote:
Hi Paul,
One thing to keep in mind is that the JVM standard has changed
drastically since OpenNMS 1.10 was released. OpenNMS 1.10 running on
JDK 6 is a very different ecosystem than OpenNMS 15. OpenNMS 15 uses a
variety of modern JVM features that require us to use JDK 7. Our
dependencies exercise advanced JVM features such as dynamic proxy
generation and bytecode manipulation. We have an entire OSGi plugin
framework embedded inside our system now that didn't exist in OpenNMS
1.10.
For this reason, we rely on some of the newest, least-tested code in
the JVM in some cases. JVM code can and does have bugs that can cause
crashes. I ran into a case today where the JAXB implementation in
Oracle's JDK7 on Linux would not run some of our topology code correctly.
As Ben noted, our code is written in Java and as far as we can tell,
the bytecode that is compiled by javac conforms properly to the Java
bytecode standards (as you would trust any compiler to do). If you
have valid bytecode, than any further crash in the JVM is, as Ben
noted, a JVM issue.
-- Seth
On 3/30/15 6:02 PM, Paul Pathiakis wrote:
On 03/30/2015 11:56, Benjamin Reed wrote:
On 3/28/15 3:06 PM, Paul Pathiakis wrote:
Openjdk crashes almost
immediately while the linux java continues for a longer duration but
also crashes.
Unless it is crashing in jrrd or jicmp which we wrote, it is by
definition a JVM issue. Unless we're running out of memory, it should
be impossible to put something in a jar that crashes the JVM, and if it
does, it's a JVM bug. Since the Linux JDK doesn't crash under the Linux
kernel, that would mean it has to be some interaction in the FreeBSD
side breaking it.
Without a crash log, though, it's hard to say. :)
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Ben,
More than happy to provide any crash dumps. However, I can't
agree with it 'must be' the JVM. Ron Roskens and I have delved into
this and found some interesting things going on. The behavior differs
between the Linux JVM on FreeBSD linuxlator and the openjdk on FreeBSD.
Once upon a time, previous OpenNMS versions always worked on
FreeBSD on Java 1.4, 1.5, 1.6. There was never an issue with getting
it running, there just wasn't a package/port.
Here's one of the e-mails that I've received regarding this:
*Hi Paul, good morning.***
**
***I’ve been reading a lot of your posts to the lists about OpenNMS
on FreeBSD.***
**
*I have been running OpenNMS v1.10.6 on FreeBSD 9 for years with no
trouble, but decided to upgrade. Heh.***
**
*See versions of software I’m running below.***
**
*I have the same symptoms you described last fall: it runs for a
while, then boom – JVM blows up.***
**
*Have you had any luck getting it working?***
**
*Thanks!***
**
*___________________________***
**
*Kris Jacobs***
*Network Administrator**
**% uname –a**
**
**FreeBSD NETMONv2.calhouncountymi.local 10.1-RELEASE FreeBSD
10.1-RELEASE #0 r274401: Tue Nov 11 21:02:49 UTC 2014
r...@releng1.nyi.freebsd.org:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/GENERIC amd64**
**
**% pkg version | grep jdk **
**
**openjdk-7.76.13_1,1**
**
**opennms-15.0.1-1**
*
So, here's an example of someone running OpenNMS 1.10.6 on FreeBSD 9
and openjdk6. It ran "for years". I had run FreeBSD 8.0 with
OpenNMS 1.{5,6}(I think) with an unknown JDK version and it ran for
years without issue. Again, what has happened? The user, Kris,
(above) has tried getting it to work on OpenNMS 1.15 with openjdk
6,7,8. None of it works. I believe OpenNMS to be the best NMS
system out there right now. However, I'm using Zabbix for all of my
new installs which seems to be my only alternative at this point.
Could someone tell me if this is working on OSX reliably? That may
be an alternative. BTW, I don't have any other issues with other
apps that are using openjdk crashing on FreeBSD, it seems to be
OpenNMS is the only app with a problem.
I'm also sending this to the java maillist at FreeBSD. I'm hoping
that the two groups can work together to resolve the issue.
My being in the middle may be hampering the issue but what seems to
be hurting more is the fact that there doesn't seem to be anyone
willing to work the issue to PROVE it is something having to do with
the JDK. People stating "Well, it works on Linux, with the Linux
JDK, which we have Linux specific conditionals set in XML code and it
works fine" comes across as a serious dodge. (Ron Roskens pointed
out a couple of issues with the code using specific 'epoll' calls.
Kudos to him for digging in and finding that.)
Seriously, if OpenNMS says "We will not support OpenNMS on FreeBSD",
then please make the statement for everyone to see so they know to
stop using and supporting this product. Just close the door and well
meaning people like myself will just walk away. Sevan used to
complain that the upstream support in the OpenNMS group was what kept
the product from being stable on more platforms, I'm starting to lean
that way as well. (With Ron Roskens being the exception, of
course.) (Sad considering that Juniper uses FreeBSD for JunOS and
Playstation is built on it, and Apple is built on it.... etc)
Something that the OpenNMS project should consider: software being
well-supported on more than just one or two platforms is the best way
to hedge your bets. Right now, there is serious slippage on a couple
of platforms in the industry. Any software project that has all
their eggs in one or two baskets could end up blowing away if those
eggs lose market share.
Tarus, can you weigh in on this?
BTW, where can I get the source for 10.x? I'd like to see if it
still runs on openjdk6. That might be a solid place to start on my
end. If that can work, I'll try openjdk 7.
Thank you,
Paul Pathiakis
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