Doug Hellmann wrote on 3/7/2017 12:53 AM:
Excerpts from Sean Dague's message of 2017-03-06 09:06:18 -0500:
On 03/06/2017 08:43 AM, Andreas Jaeger wrote:
On 2017-03-06 14:03, Sean Dague wrote:
I'm trying to understand the implications of
https://review.openstack.org/#/c/439500. And the comment in the linked
email:
">> Yes, we decided some time ago to not translate the log files anymore and
thus our tools do not handle them anymore - and in general, we remove
these kind of files."
Does that mean that all the _LE, _LI, _LW stuff in projects should be
fully removed? Nova currently enforces those things are there -
https://github.com/openstack/nova/blob/e88dd0034b1b135d680dae3494597e295add9cfe/nova/hacking/checks.py#L314-L333
and want to make sure our tools aren't making us do work that the i18n
team is ignoring and throwing away.
Sean, this was removed as followup to:
http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-i18n/2016-November/002574.html
Let me copy Ian as i18n PTL,
Andreas
That all seems reasonable, and I'm happy to follow the i18n team's lead
here. It is however a significant reversal of policy, and there is
substantial code infrastructure in projects (like Nova) to support the
old policy.
So if this is new policy, a much wider dissemination of it would be
welcomed, as it means we can purge this infrastructure from projects
like Nova.
-Sean
Yes, we went to a great deal of trouble to enable log translations,
so I'm surprised to see it being dropped to quickly. I don't
necessarily disagree with the decision, because I know translator
time is limited. But it would be nice to have the discussion here,
+1 and for such discussions including openstack-i...@lists.openstack.org
mailing list would be also nice :)
On Barcelona Design Summit, there were I18n contributor meetup and I18n
team members discussed a lot.
One of things was not to translate log-level strings for server projects.
Note that such decision was made not because translator time is limited.
Log messages are important to better identify which errors are being
posed and most operators (+ developers)
diagnose and start to solve error situations from the log messages.
I18n team previously translated log messages a lot especially thanks to
translation contribution from IBM. (AFAIK)
However, after then, there have been some voices - why I18n team
translated log messages?
After listening to the voices in details, I18n team identified that the
background of such voices was related with searching log messages on
Internet.
Searching English log messages on the Internet will retrieve more number
of results than searching translated log messages on the Internet.
Translating log messages now has two different point of views:
- Will be useful for OpenStack users to better understand log messages
in details with translated log messages?
- Or will not be useful for OpenStack users because the original log
messages will have better chance to find solutions who occurred the
similar cases on the Internet?
I18n team discussed with such point of views and on Barcelona Summit the
latter point would be more important than the former point.
Also, it would be just a point of view from PTL, but it is difficult for
me to encourage to contribution translations which have such kind of
controversy.
Now I would like to listen again to not only developers, but also
operators and translators - for log string translation.
If someone thinks that the former point would be more important than the
latter point, please share through this mailing list to reconsider the
current decision.
With many thanks,
/Ian
instead of on a list most of the community isn't subscribed to, so
everyone involved can understand the reason for the change and so
the folks who asked for it originally can be included in the
conversation. As Sean points out, the policy change has a lot of
other implications about how logging is handled throughout the
applications.
Doug
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