Mike Cannon-Brookes wrote:

You can already test actions to setup xwork.xml - just instantiate the
object, call your setter methods and run!


Are you trying to scare users away now? I was talking WW2, not XW, so a web-based interface where you can get immediate feedback in the environment you're gonna use seems reasonable. Writing even more code is hardly user friendly.

People doing J2EE understand XML, they have to. All descriptors are XML.
Xwork.xml is not _that_ complex for a hello world example, most of the
elements are optional.


I think you overestimate "people doing j2ee". Maybe you need to come and spend a day or two in #java and listen to the questions people who are trying to understand WW (1 and 2) are asking. Many are new to java, people just don't learn programming the logical way by working upwards, they start in the middle and work outwards. Sure, it's not "_that_" complex for a hello world app. It is however an order of magnitude more complex than it was in WW1 and _already that level_ confused a lot of newbies. If we want WW2 to be used and to be able to compete with things like Struts, you can't have this kind of elitist thinking.

If you have a competent person who knows XML and all that, the odds are he's already used to Struts and we do NOT want to make him give up on his evaluation of WW2 because it's a big hassle. We want to give the view (illusion if you will) that it's easier than Struts, and not just a little easier, a _lot_ easier. No one will change if they don't see their time invested will be worth it down the line.

However, there _is_ a problem with WW2 at the moment that if a view is not
found, no debug page is shown. I think it should be ("action returned
"input" but not "input" view found).


So you agree with the full debug output? Fine, I still hold to my view that if we give the illusion of ease of use, people will believe it is easy to use. Call me crazy, but I think people believe what they see.

I'd also like some arguments against my ideas other than "it's not so complex" and "I don't think so". You began the email with "I have to say that this is a _bad_ idea." and then proceeded to give zero technical arguments against the idea. I am fully willing to throw my idea in the garbage bin, given actual problems with it. You have not shown any.

Anders Hovmöller



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