Well, I'll agree that the manager can certainly
help the programmers.
But a programmer can learn the business from the
users without any help from the manager. It's
motivation thing.
Most of the responsibility to learn the business
you are in lies with you as an individual. Get
to know people, ask qeustions, help them out with
their problems.
You learn what they do, they learn what you do. Since
you're willing to help them, they're willing to help you.
I don't buy into blaming the manager for things I can
control.
Jared
On Saturday 07 July 2001 13:15, Khedr, Waleed wrote:
> Sometimes it's not the programmer fault but the managers' fault.
> They do not invlove the team including the programmers in the analysis
> cycle of the project and when the implimentation starts they are the last
> ones to know any thing about the business part of the project.
>
> Regards,
>
> Waleed
> -----Original Message-----
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> Sent: 7/7/01 9:30 AM
>
>
> Not really devil's advocate, you're absolutely right.
>
> A good IT person needs to understand the business, though
> maybe not to the point of actually being able to do the
> other persons job, just as a good business person needs
> to understand the Informatation Systems being used to
> perform his or her job, though not necessarily well
> enough to create that system.
>
> Too many people on both sides of that coin lack the
> appropriate knowledge to be really effective at
> their jobs.
>
> Jared
>
> On Saturday 07 July 2001 05:40, Rachel Carmichael wrote:
> > And the other side of the coin (I feel like playing devil's advocate
>
> here)
>
> > there are lots of truly savvy, brilliant IT people, who choose IT as
>
> their
>
> > career, who know nothing about the business side of the process. I
>
> don't
>
> > care how beautifully you code, if the program is not useful or usable
>
> by
>
> > the end user, it's junk.
> >
> > We have a brilliant programmer here, who doesn't give a damn about the
> > implications of what he does or the end user. I have sat and listened
>
> to
>
> > him make fun of the business manager because she is concerned about
>
> the
>
> > impact of what we do on the ultimate end user, our website visitors.
>
> And I
>
> > have wanted to smack him more often than not.
> >
> > I got into programming accidentally on purpose, I originally meant to
>
> be an
>
> > English or math teacher. looking forward at the prospect of no jobs, I
> > choose something else that had been fun -- programming. I haven't
>
> regretted
>
> > my choice but perhaps the original leaning means that I tend to see
>
> BOTH
>
> > aspects of what I'm doing.
> >
> > Rachel
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > From: Jared Still <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >
> > >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > >Subject: Re: OT: Learning Curve for Informatica ETL Products
> > >Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 20:30:20 -0800
> > >
> > >On Friday 06 July 2001 08:20, paquette stephane wrote:
> > > > In the real life, the development is done by people
> > > > with a medium knowledge of SQL, a weak knowledge of
> > > > tuning and the rdbms and with 3-4 years of experience.
> > >
> > >I have to admit, we had the same concern with the
> > >project we were using it on. Several people in the
> > >classes were struggling with stuff that was easy.
> > >
> > >It's my opinion that many people in IT were in the
> > >business side first, and eventually became IT folks
> > >because they had such a good understanding of the
> > >business processes and appeared to be computer savvy.
> > >
> > >In many cases the savvy exhibited by a talented power
> > >user does not translate well into the kind of skills,
> > >talent, perseverance and motivation required to have
> > >a good understanding of low level application processes.
> > >
> > >These people came into IT by accident. I'm here on
> > >purpose. I think it makes a big difference in many
> > >cases as to how successful they will be.
> > >
> > >There are of course exceptions, but I've seen a lot
> > >of people like this.
> > >
> > >So often the problems in IT are not technology problems,
> > >but people problems.
> > >
> > >Jared
> > >--
> > >Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> > >--
> > >Author: Jared Still
> > > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >
> > >Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051
> > >San Diego, California -- Public Internet access / Mailing
>
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> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
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--
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
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