I think keeping the list free is the way to go. My reasoning behind this is
that newbees to the list, like myself, don't know the benefits they will
reap from a list such as this until they use it. They will just use another
list that doesn't charge. Some of you might think this is a good idea but
if you look at the big picture, everyone started out as a newbee. These
newbees are the future ORACLE GURU'S and I really want those future guru's
to be exchanging ideas and experiences with me in the future.
With new minds comes a new way of looking at things.
I will pledge $20 all I need is the paypal account #.
Kevin Hedger
Aspiring dba
>I think a subscription is a decent suggestion. I know Bruce wants to keep
>it
>free but it still sounds the most feasible to me. After all the "electronic
>friends" I have made on the list, and of course its primary aim as a
>second-to-none technical resource/forum, I would hate to see it go.
>
>Regards
>
>Lee
>
>-----Original Message-----
>Sent: 29 August 2001 11:36
>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>Sent: 28 August 2001 23:29
>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>
>
>
>Ok, now that I have your attention, please read the following message from
>Bruce Bergman,
>owner of fatcity.com. It concerns the future of this list.
>
>Please read the entire message before replying.
>
>Thank you.
>
>Jared Still ( List Owner )
>
>
>-------------------------------------------
>
>Hello ORACLE-L list members --
>
>I would like to take a few minutes of your time for a "State of the Union"
>address, if you can call it that. This is a rather serious message, and I
>request that you take the time to read this message entirely. I've got a
>problem that needs resolution this week, and I'm hoping you folks can help
>me come to a conclusion. This message turned out to be fairly
>long-winded, so please excuse me for that. :-)
>
>Fat City (fatcity.com) is my company, and I am the provider of the list
>services that you receive ORACLE-L through. I've been hosting Internet
>mailing lists for over 10 years, and carry quite a few lists, including a
>big selection of Oracle-related lists (14, in fact). Fat City has always
>been a labor of love for me. Over the years it has rarely generated any
>income at all, and it usually does not cover my expenses -- most of the
>time
>it is a monthly loss for me. The vast majority of my 60+ mailing lists
>have
>been hosted for free, at my expense (as is the ORACLE-L list, for example).
>Yet I have absorbed these costs because I enjoy hosting discussion lists
>and I know a lot of lists can't afford to pay for quality service.
>
>I am soon to be one of the Rhythms Orphans. Rhythms, my DSL provider, has
>gone bankrupt and will be out of business by 10-Sep-2001. I need to find
>another provider of high-speed Internet in order to continue operations. I
>am at the point of either folding shop completely and going out of business
>myself, or trying to make Fat City a viable, money-making endeavor. I need
>to make this decision by this Friday (for financial and planning reasons).
>After Friday, I am committed one way or the other.
>
>My upstream ISP and I are on very good terms, and in fact, I've been a
>customer of theirs since 1985! As a result, they have graciously offered
>to help me out of this situation at considerable expense to themselves.
>I'm not at liberty to discuss the terms of the contract I would engage in
>with them, but suffice to say that is one of those once-in-a-lifetime
>opportunities that I'd be a fool to pass up. I have this offer personally
>from the President of that company, if I want it. Simply said, my ability
>to take them up on their offer and switch Fat City over to a dedicated T1
>or
>better solution revolves around being able to generate quite a bit of
>additional
>income per month, and very soon. In an effort to be open and up-front with
>you folks about this, I basically need to generate an additional $500 more
>per
>month. Right now that seems daunting, but I've been working hard to line up
>that
>additional income, and I believe I can do it. Just not right away. My
>estimates are that it will take me four or five months to come up to that
>level. I need to get out there and sell website hosting and list hosting
>packages, and get new customers. That takes time, unfortunately. I need a
>buffer to enable me to get past this startup phase.
>
>After some discussions with Jared (the list owner), and some encouragement
>from him, I am coming to you to ask for you help in keeping Fat City
>financially afloat until I can be self sufficient. I'm not asking for a
>specific dollar amount from anyone, nor am I *expecting* anything from you
>folks. But if it is within your power to contribute some money towards
>this
>end (and yes, I know these are hard financial times for everyone), I am
>hoping you can help. If I can get sufficient promise of funds that will
>see
>me through the next few months, I am willing to jump in with both feet and
>make Fat City a viable business. If it looks like the contributions are
>not
>sufficient to enable me to do that, I will cease operations within the next
>45-60 days.
>
>Let me be clear about a few things: If I *do* cease operations, I will give
>all of my lists time to find new list providers, and will make every effort
>to aid the shift over to the new provider, provide list dumps, archives,
>mail forwarding, etc. Even though Rhythms goes out of business on
>10-Sep-2001, I have secured service until at least 10-Oct-2001 to enable
>this to happen. So don't worry about having to rush into your conversion
>if
>things don't work out. I would also like to clearly state that this is not
>some attempt to blackmail or coerce anyone into coming up with money. This
>will either succeed or fail based on what you folks can comfortably and
>willingly contribute. If I had the ability to cover this startup period
>myself,
>I would definitely do so. If Fat City ultimately goes under, it wil NOT be
>your fault, and I hold no one to blame. That's just how the Internet cards
>are right now. I do not want anyone to contribute if they don't have
>the money, or if things are tight at home, or anything like that. I would
>like contributions to be made from those who are able to make such a
>contribution willingly.
>
>Also, I don't want anyone to send any money right now. Basically I just
>want a show of hands of those who could contribute something to this cause.
>Send me ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) or Jared ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) an E-mail saying
>what amount you'd be willing to contribute. If you would rather donate
>anonymously, perhaps Jared could collect those donations. I will "pass
>around the hat" until Friday morning, at which point I'll see if there were
>sufficient pledges to enable me to move forward. If it seems like there
>is,
>then I will come up with a way for you to honor your pledge (probably
>either
>directly to me via check or via PayPal, most likely). The funds can be
>collected in the next few weeks, but I must make my decision on Friday. I
>apologize for the late notice on this, but I was not given this offer by my
>ISP until late last week.
>
>In return for your contributions, I promise the following things:
>
>- I will use all contributions ONLY for the express purpose of paying for
>my
>Internet service costs
>- I will continue to host the ORACLE-L list for free for the forseeable,
>indefinite future
>- I will make no more requests of this list for contributions of this sort
>- I will provide a full accounting and update to the list on the costs and
>how the funds are being used
>- I will make improvements to the list that will enhance your features and
>performance (for example, faster turn-around on list postings, etc)
>- I will at least carry though for the next calendar year unless I have
>catastrophic financial failure
>
>Please note that the ODTUG organization is already making a considerable
>contribution by way of a monthly payment for service, so they are already
>aware of this situation and are actively helping out. There are a good
>number of people here who are on the ODTUG lists too, so I wanted to point
>that out ahead of time and let you know that they are being very helpful.
>
>Another way you could contribute would be to come to Fat City for your list
>hosting or website hosting needs. I had just started offering website
>hosting services before this mess started, and obviously, a monthly paying
>customer is far better than a one-time contribution. If you go to
>http://www.fatcity.com and click on the "Website Hosting" link, you can
>check out the packages I offer. In an effort to get new customers, I am
>willing to waive all setup fees in order to bring new customers on board.
>If you become a customer here in the next couple of months, that would help
>tremendously. If you have an interest in hosting your website (personal or
>business) with us, -or- a want to start a new mailing list, please contact
>me for details.
>
>I know this is a lot to ask of you folks. You are entirely welcome to just
>tell me to jump in a lake, and that that's how business is right now. But
>I
>know many of you personally, either from ODTUG conferences or from other
>Oracle events, and I also know how staunchly you support this mailing list
>with useful information, humor, helpfulness and an eye toward quality. I
>would like to think that you find Fat City to be the best place to host
>your
>list, and that you will want to help me out so that I can continue to
>provide the list to you folks free of charge. I made a promise to Jared
>years ago to host this list for free because I think it is one of the best
>and most valuable resources out there. I intend to honor that promise to
>him by continuing to provide it for free. If it turns out that I must
>close
>shop and call it quits, at least I will have known I did my best to make it
>succeed, and I did so without having to reneg on committments I had
>made in the past.
>
>I am being open and honest with everyone because I believe that this is the
>best way to succeed. I believe you appreciate this kind of approach, and I
>want you to know that regardless of what happens, I certainly appreciate
>every consideration you give this request. Whether or not this succeeds, I
>know that you are a great group of people and I wish this list the best
>luck
>in this life, or the next. :-)
>
>Remember, time is of the essence. The sooner I hear from people who
>can help, the sooner I can nail down a line of approach. If you have any
>questions or concerns, please E-mail me.
>
>Thanks everyone!
>
>Bruce Bergman
>President, Fat City Network Services
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>--
>Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
>--
>Author:
> INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051
>San Diego, California -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists
>--------------------------------------------------------------------
>To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
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>also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
>
>--
>Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
>--
>Author: Jenner Mike
> INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051
>San Diego, California -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists
>--------------------------------------------------------------------
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>also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
>
>
>The information contained in this communication is
>confidential, is intended only for the use of the recipient
>named above, and may be legally privileged. If the reader
>of this message is not the intended recipient, you are
>hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or
>copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.
>If you have received this communication in error, please
>re-send this communication to the sender and delete the
>original message or any copy of it from your computer
>system.
>--
>Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
>--
>Author: Robertson Lee - lerobe
> INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051
>San Diego, California -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists
>--------------------------------------------------------------------
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>also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
_________________________________________________________________
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--
Author: Kevin Hedger
INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051
San Diego, California -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists
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