Hi Jeff,
As I mentioned in a previous post, we are also using XSLT in our
applications (we've implemented around 10 so far). We already tried
different approaches, namely Oracle Application Server PLSQL Cartridge, JDBC
servlets, JSP + JDBC Servlets, JSP + EJB, as things were evolving. The story
then goes like that
Instead of using JSPs directly, we developed, as many people have done, our
own Model 2 - Servlet controller framework. The JSDK specification left a
couple of holes (security, application events...) that we also tried to fix
with our framework.
After that, there are two things that were gibing us headaches when
developing web apps:
.- Implementing the data layer
.- Creating/Modifying the interface without having a programmer handy.
Implementing the data layer using EJB is, unless you have lots of bucks to
invest in a good GUI tool, a PITA. You have dozens of tables and
relationships, bla, bla and you end up replicating this desing with dozens
of JavaBeans and lots of getters/setters that do pretty much nothing new.
And then relationships are not easily handled (it seems that specification
1.0 was created to develop 1-table applications ;)) and complex queries have
to be writen by hand. You end up transforming your data from SQL to Java and
then formatting it with JSP. As we were positive we were going to use
Oracle, we developed a utility that allows us to write the data layer
directly in PLSQL. This way if you specify the XML interface correctly, you
can have a programmer that knows nothing about Java or web applications
implementing your data layer.
In order to modify the interface, you have to choose between making it easy
to designers, or making it flexible. Using JSPs you cannot 100%-isolate the
HTML code and the Java code. Even using custom tags. And telling them "you
cannot touch that" is not enough in some cases, if they want to change some
weird layouts. You can almost get it if you develop a complete set of custom
tags to allow you to get the data in different orders, conditional code...
but then you end up having pretty much with XSLT already has. It is not that
with JSP you cannot do it but we prefer to have the designer on his own.
That is what he can do with an HTML prototype and the XML specification: he
can work on his own with a test XML file and he won't break any code,
because there's not a single line of logic written by a developer in there.
This is not a perfect solution, as XML/XSLT tools are nowadays quite young
but we hope that tools will improve on that regard. We find it better to
train a designer to use XSLT, which is a standar, than a set of custom tags
that are not really useful outside the JSP scope. But as I said, it is not a
"one size fits all" solution, but it is quite flexible. If we wanted to use
EJBs with another database, we would then probably use JSPs to format the
XML (still done by the developer) and the designer won't even know that we
have changed the backed, as long as the XML is the same.
Of course, just a personal opinion ;).
D.
Jeff Schnitzer wrote:
> Doh! Sorry, that wasn't supposed to go to the list.
>
> But to keep this topic going (because I'm still undecided about what
> direction to go):
>
> Is anyone here besides Tim using XSLT in their web application? How do
> you like it? Is it easy to get designers up and running with it? How
> do you interface between Java and XML (jsp? building dom nodes in java?
> something else?) ?
>
> Thanks,
> Jeff
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Jeff Schnitzer
> > Sent: Friday, April 27, 2001 3:38 PM
> > To: Orion-Interest
> > Subject: RE: MVC/XML Framework Comments please
> >
> >
> > I'm definitely interested in your framework; may I have a copy?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Jeff
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Duffey, Kevin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2001 2:39 PM
> > To: Orion-Interest
> > Subject: RE: MVC/XML Framework Comments please
> >
> >
> > I use my own framework for a couple of sites, and have gotten feedback
> > from others using it as well. Its only 15K in size, full source, its
> > free to use, modify, etc. If your interested in it, send me
> > an email. It
> > supports xsl transformations, and is very similar to Struts
> > only that I
> > found struts too much for my needs, and some features it
> > didn't do that
> > I needed, so I went that direction.
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Vic Cekvenich [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2001 11:53 AM
> > To: Orion-Interest
> > Subject: MVC/XML Framework Comments please
> >
> >
> >
> > We are bout to pick a a framework, and I am looking for are
> > comments or
> > recommendation on a frameworks, other than Struts. (Don't want to be
> > HTML/JSP centric) Any feedback on your experience with a framework, or
> > do
> > you know of web sites in production that are using a certain
> > frame work,
> > or
> > do you know of friend or someone who has used one.
> >
> > I would like it to be XML centric, and MVC. For example, the V should
> > apply
> > the XSL to XML, to make it HTML. It should do standard
> > session tracking.
> > It
> > should do standard data manager, so that Java Beans do the
> > SQL (the M).
> > A
> > minor plus is form entry management and a bit of image/content
> > management.
> > It should be a single rich framework. Here are a few we are
> > considering:
> >
> >
> > http://www.jcorporate.com/html/products/productsfm.html
> > <http://www.jcorporate.com/html/products/productsfm.html>
> >
> > http://jakarta.apache.org/jetspeed/site/index.html
> > <http://jakarta.apache.org/jetspeed/site/index.html>
> >
> > and all the ones under Jakarta.
> >
> > We need to pick one soon. Any comments and feedback welcome on
> > frameworks/class libraries.
> >
> > Thanks, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
