Paul,

Do you agree then, with this statement by the author?

/"Contrary to what we would like to believe, there is no such thing as a structureless group."


/
On 10/5/15 1:11 PM, paul levy via OSList wrote:
I rather like the saying "Trying to understand yourself is like trying to bite your own teeth."

The statement "Structure is s figment of our imagination" is simply a structured statement.

Indeed all advocacy is at least temporary structure.

And no less beautiful for that.

Saying it's all flow is another structure statement. By advocating it is true it becomes a truth structure.

Ho hum. So it goes.

"There can be no river unless the mountain spring makes a sacred promise to the sea."

Warm wishes

Paul Levy

On Sunday, 4 October 2015, Harrison Owen via OSList <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:

    “Everything is moving.”  .... Michael -- I remember that moment
    very well. And Dan, I’m not sure the context, etc, would help very
    much. But just for the record the odd phrase popped out at one of
    the International Symposia on Organization Transformation which
    happened to be taking place at a small college south of Seattle. I
    have no idea why Ralph said what he did, and I’m not sure Ralph
    did either. But then again a lot of marvelous stuff seems to burst
    out with no obvious logic train. Indeed it may be that the lack of
    logic train enables the thought?

    Whatever the genesis, the phrase wandered about my head for some
    time, quite unattached, and it also happened that I was working my
    way slowly through one of the masterpieces of 20^th century
    western philosophy when a fuzzy connection began to form. The work
    was that of Alfred North Whitehead, and the title: “Process and
    Reality.” I’ve been through the book probably 4-5 times, and I am
    frank to confess that I don’t think I really understand it. But
    then again I’ve heard  a number of people with much greater
    credentials, tenure, etc – say the same thing. But I did get that
    it had something to do with, “Everything is moving.” And the more
    I thought and read, the more I felt that the good philosopher had
    made a small mistake on his title. It shouldn’t be “Process /and/
    Reality,” but rather “Process *is* Reality.”

    Now, Anna Caroline we come to “structure,” or perhaps I should say
    the fallacy of Structure? Yes I know – we’ve all been taught that
    structure is the precursor, the “determinator” of everything. My
    face looks as it does because of my bone structure. My life
    proceeds the way it does because of my social structure. My
    business works as it does because of the organizational structure.
    And of course, meetings happen the way they do because of meeting
    structure, which apparently is the prime domain of “facilitators.”
    And even if we hadn’t been “taught” all this, the primacy of
    structure would appear to be blatantly obvious – as plain as the
    nose on your face.

    Unfortunately, it does seem to turn out that sometimes the
    blatantly obvious is not necessarily so. For example just looking
    at things it is pretty clear that the world is flat, or at the
    least bumpy flat. And any fool can see that we are the center of
    it all – Sun, moon, and stars whiz around us.  But when we think
    about it, as we have been doing for the last 500-600 years, the
    obvious isn’t so obvious.

    It is reasonable to ask what would start to make us think
    differently – to the point that we begin to question the obvious,
    and even come to see things in a different way? Taking a leap, I
    will suggest that it all begins with the perception of anomaly.
    Things just don’t make sense. Our eyes tell us one thing...
    but???? And then we start making up stories to explain the
    apparently unexplainable. We imagine different ways of looking at
    things so that the nonsensical makes sense. Some of those stories
    get pretty strange, but if they actually work – that is to say,
    help us to see in new and useful ways – that’s great!

    There is, of course, a proper term for the activity I have been
    describing. It is called Theory Building. And for whatever it is
    worth, “theory” comes from the Greek “/theorein”/ – to see. In a
    word, theories are ways of looking at things – likely stories you
    might say.

    Now, at long last (too long?) we come to the odd story I was
    starting to tell, to the effect that Structure is only a figment
    of our imagination, a flash frame of a moment gone by.
    Interesting, and helpful under some circumstances... but always
    partial and in a sense illusory. What’s “really” happening is all
    flow. Everything is moving – That’s Ralph’s story, and I guess it
    is mine too.

    So how did I get to such a weird condition? It was all about
    anomaly – more particularly, the anomaly of Open Space. Everything
    that I had ever learned told me that it could not work.
    Unfortunately it did (work) – and not just once, but every time,
    hundreds of thousands of times. Something was definitely weird. It
    seemed to me that I had to re-consider all those things I thought
    I had learned, beginning with the basics... such things as Structure.

    Common sense would say that Open Space works because we somehow
    created a structure that enabled it to work. That’s the way things
    get done, or so I had been taught. But that’s not the way things
    happened in Open Space. Structure emerged along the way and only
    momentarily. Worse yet it (structure) seemed to have little to do
    with the obvious power, connections, creativity.... all of which
    created structures, and passed them by. And actually it always
    seemed to me that the “structures” I “saw” existed only because I
    wanted to see them – or perhaps that I “should” see them. But they
    were only momentary wisps, figments – never to be mistaken for
    what was really going on. Or so I’ve been thinking.

    Harrison

    *From:*OSList [mailto:[email protected]
    <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');>]
    *On Behalf Of *Michael Herman via OSList
    *Sent:* Saturday, October 03, 2015 6:31 PM
    *To:* JL Walker; World wide Open Space Technology email list
    *Subject:* Re: [OSList] The Tyranny of Structurelessness

    you remind me, harrison, of one morning news session years ago,
    somewhere, probably OT... where ralph copleman walked to the
    center of the circle and announced, all serious and mischievous at
    the same time, "it's all moving!"

    then put the stick down and went back to his seat.



    --

    Michael Herman
    Michael Herman Associates
    http://MichaelHerman.com
    http://OpenSpaceWorld.org

    On Sat, Oct 3, 2015 at 1:47 PM, JL Walker via OSList
    <[email protected]
    <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');>>
    wrote:

    I was thinking that maybe the antidote to the eventual tyranny of
    structurelessness is to open space, again and again, until true
    democracy can emerge.

    Juan Luis

    *De:*OSList [mailto:[email protected]
    <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');>]
    *En nombre de *Rosa Zubizarreta via OSList
    *Enviado el:* sábado, 03 de octubre de 2015 12:19
    *Para:* Daniel Mezick; World wide Open Space Technology email list
    *Asunto:* Re: [OSList] The Tyranny of Structurelessness

    Hi Daniel,

    Yes, this is a key piece... I see it as very similar in some ways
    to what Ken Wilber wrote later,

    about the "shadow side of the green meme". (Each meme has its own
    shadow, as well as its own gift...)

    So, I love "green". I love circles, I love non-hierarchy, etc.
    And, part of the "shadow side of the green meme" is how
    ideologically anti-structure it can become...

    to the point where some people may not even agree that OST does,
    in fact, offer a very simple and effective structure.

    By way contrast, think of a situation where group of people (who
    don't know about OST, and/or, who are having a power struggle
    around "which process to use", and/or....  ) might easily spending
    a whole weekend arguing /about /"how to self-organize
    ourselves"... with a great deal more pain and frustration and a
    great deal less value.

    whereas, instead, IF someone knows about OST, and, a clear
    invitation has been extended, and, there is enough
    trust/suspension of disbelief so that participants are willing to
    enter into that format,

    then, we end up with a very simple and elegant structure that
    allows people to self-organize beautifully....

    at least that's how i see it! :-)

    with all best wishes,

    Rosa


    */Rosa Zubizarreta/*

    /Developing Participatory and Co-intelligent Leadership
    Author of *From Conflict to Creative Collaboration*
    <http://www.conflict2creativity.com>/

    /For more resources and learning opportunities, visit
    *www.DiaPraxis.com <http://www.DiaPraxis.com>*/

    On Sat, Oct 3, 2015 at 9:26 AM, Daniel Mezick via OSList
    <[email protected]
    <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');>>
    wrote:

    THE TYRANNY of STRUCTURELESSNESS
    by Jo Freeman aka Joreen

    I find this essay extremely interesting. I hope you do, too.



    Here is a pertinent quote, from the essay:
    ".../the idea of "structurelessness" does not prevent the
    formation of informal structures, only formal ones."

    /
    Circa 1970. Context: the women's movement. Quick summary of the
    main points: from the essay...

      * /During the years in which the women's liberation movement has
        been taking shape, a great emphasis has been placed on what
        are called leaderless, structureless groups as the main -- if
        not sole -- organizational form of the movement. /

      * /The idea of "structurelessness," however, has moved from a
        healthy counter to those tendencies, to becoming a goddess in
        its own right./

      * /Contrary to what we would like to believe, there is no such
        thing as a structureless group. /

      * /This means that to strive for a structureless group is as
        useful, and as deceptive, as to aim at an "objective" news
        story, "value-free" social science, or a "free" economy. A
        "laissez faire" group is about as realistic as a "laissez
        faire" society; the idea becomes a smokescreen for the strong
        or the lucky to establish unquestioned hegemony over others. /

      * /This hegemony can be so easily established because the idea
        of "structurelessness" does not prevent the formation of
        informal structures, only formal ones. /

      * /For everyone to have the opportunity to be involved in a
        given group and to participate in its activities, the
        structure must be explicit, not implicit. /

      * /It is this informal structure, particularly in Unstructured
        groups, which forms the basis for elites./



    Just in case you have not yet encountered the full text of this
    essay, here it is:

    THE TYRANNY of STRUCTURELESSNESS
    by Jo Freeman aka Joreen
    http://www.jofreeman.com/joreen/tyranny.htm



    Regards,
    Daniel
    http://www.OpenSpaceAgility.com/about
    http://www.DanielMezick.com
    203 915 7248 <tel:203%20915%207248>


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