They should have done that to start with, from their position of starting way from behind, they need every incentive they can get. Apple and Android stores are so far ahead its laughable.
On Wed, Apr 17, 2013 at 2:52 AM, Katherine Moss <katherine.m...@gordon.edu>wrote: > Or some day, we won’t be restricted with Windows modern only to the > store? Maybe Microsoft will one day do what Apple did for the Mac > platform, that is, offer the store, but also make installations allowed to > happen from anywhere if the user chooses; how it should be; they can be > profit hungry and restrictive on the phones,but not to those users of > computers, please. **** > > ** ** > > *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto: > ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *Scott Barnes > *Sent:* Tuesday, April 16, 2013 9:16 AM > > *To:* ozDotNet > *Subject:* Re: [OT] Surface RT or Surface Pro?**** > > ** ** > > I don't disagree with all the points made here, i'm simply saying that's > the "distorted reality" in most enterprises so far. It's kind of this > seasonal shift whereby every 2-3 years some clown on the web goes "Ok.. i > think i have it figured out this time, HTML FTW!" and then you're off and > racing again. I mean the evolution has gone from JS --> DHTML --> AJAX --> > HTML5/JS .... i am totally abusing the word "evolution" there as well :) .. > > Nothing really has changed since the day I cracked open a book on how to > code JS with Netscape. Sure frameworks have matured along the way and > people have gotten a lot more disciplined (as much as they can do) in > regards to how they write JS code and so on. Ultimately though JavaScript > just hasn't moved an inch since its 2010 and even that was a very "meh" > release ( > https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/JavaScript/New_in_JavaScript/1.8.5) > .. i guess its the typical "Good ideas go to die in the house Oracle" > moment of Software Zen for us all. > > Now as for Microsoft abandoning ship, I guess the first mistake most make > is they assume there's a captain at the wheel holding a steady hand on a > course based on strategy... The last man that had a strategy that had power > was Steve Sinofsky and before that was Scott Guthrie ... and look what > happened there :) (although TheGu is nailing it in Azure).**** > > ** ** > > If you speak to most Microsoft Evangelists ask them what their metrics are > and the answer will be "Apps in the AppStore". Then ask them how they > expect to entice the horde of developers to get the apps into the AppStore? > ... some will try and get the C#/XAML crowd to adopt but there is only so > many twitter/flashlight/rpg calculators/bus time table apps you can make > before you start to loose points for AppStore adoption. The only realistic > way you can draw in apps from a designer <--> developer workflow is if you > get them to focus on the HTML/IE story as well that workflow seems to work > well on the web to which my ex colleague coined the slogan "make web not > war"..**** > > ** ** > > So if Microsoft are banging their pots and pans about HTML HTML HTML and > you have some skittish "leadership" decision makers or even people in the > cubicles hearing the FUD around HTML..welll it tends to breed the whole > "Sure I guess HTML could work...but damn me if i can get the > same efficiency and IP cross-over as i had with C#....FK U! MSFT!!" with > fists in the air.**** > > > I'lll leave you with a last tid bit of insight that I got once. I once was > eating lunch in Building 16 and we got onto the discussion of > "Silverlight reaching 90% ubiquity, what then?" was my question. The answer > I got was "we're ready to take on HTML..." ... as ultimately had we reached > 90% ubiquity with Silverlight and outpaced Flash...we just won 5% of the > developer marketshare...the 95% is tied up in AJAX/HTML. Now that's a weak > data point but if that's the mantra internally at the time then who's to > say it hasn't upgraded, mutated or died? :) as if people believe that at > the "strategy" level.... **** > > ** ** > > ** ** > > :D**** > > ** ** > > ** ** > > > **** > > --- > Regards, > Scott Barnes > http://www.riagenic.com**** > > ** ** > > On Sat, Apr 13, 2013 at 12:34 AM, Katherine Moss < > katherine.m...@gordon.edu> wrote:**** > > But my main question and concern is whether learning .net now is worth it > in this day and age. I feel like .net is what makes Windows Windows, and > since most of Microsoft’s feature endeavours like with the Midori project > coming up in the future and all that being mostly based on .net, I don’t > see it dying out any time soon. And if you ask me, hTML belongs in a web > browser and not on the desktop, but that’s just my opinion. Do you folks > think it’s worth me continuing to learn C# and to become proficient in it? > And whoever said incompatibility of web services with other applications, > what are you talking about? I know of a .net application (Sueetie) that > uses WCF for some of it’s functions, and I’ve never heard of any complaints > of people not being able to access those functions using other web browsers > and platforms. **** > > **** > > *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto: > ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *Stephen Price > *Sent:* Friday, April 12, 2013 1:44 AM > *To:* Greg Low; ozDotNet**** > > > *Subject:* Re: [OT] Surface RT or Surface Pro?**** > > **** > > The way the Web won. **** > > **** > > (insert whistling cowboy music)**** > > **** > > On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 1:21 PM, Greg Low (GregLow.com) <g...@greglow.com> > wrote:**** > > I think they are responding to the BYOD movement as well. The days of IT > staff defining an SOE and forcing everyone to use it are gone, or at least > disappearing fast. It’s really common to have top-down decisions on this > stuff now ie: CEOs coming in with their tablets and saying “make it work > here”.**** > > **** > > I’ve just spent quite a bit of time moving around dozens of software > houses, and I can tell you that almost everyone has an HTML5/CSS3/JS story. > They see it as a design choice that isn’t going to disappear again > tomorrow, even though building apps there is still so much harder than what > it should be. It’s seen as a hard but safe bet. Most are using additional > frameworks like KendoUI.**** > > **** > > This sort of change isn’t new though. What does concern me is the loss of > productivity we’ve had over the years. **** > > **** > > We didn’t move to web apps in the first place because users were screaming > out for slow delivery times, a lousy user interface and session state > that’s likely to throw away their work without warning. As an example, OWA > is a pretty good web app but it’s not a patch on Outlook. The initial move > to web apps was all about IT departments not wanting to deal with > deployment issues, because they were just too hard sometimes.**** > > **** > > I see this as just the next part of this trend. I look at productivity > though and it could make you cry. I’ve just spent a couple of weeks coding > in an MVC4 project, and while I like it and can see the appeal of it, I > can’t help but thinking I could have created the same business > functionality in a winforms app in less than a day. At least it runs all > over the place (sort of).**** > > **** > > Regards,**** > > **** > > Greg**** > > **** > > Dr Greg Low**** > > **** > > 1300SQLSQL (1300 775 775) office | +61 419201410 mobile│ +61 3 8676 4913fax > **** > > SQL Down Under | Web: www.sqldownunder.com**** > > **** > > *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto: > ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *Corneliu I. Tusnea > *Sent:* Friday, 12 April 2013 3:04 PM**** > > > *To:* ozDotNet > *Subject:* Re: [OT] Surface RT or Surface Pro?**** > > **** > > Yes, but by the time .Net developers started to use WebServices everyone > else moved on to REST as they figured out WS were bloody hard to use, > incompatible between platforms, heavyweight, hard to upgrade and generally > a pain in the *** to develop against :)**** > > Now everyone is talking lightweight REST + JSON and we just managed > finally to get that in the WebApi ...**** > > **** > > On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 2:53 PM, Tom Rutter <therut...@gmail.com> wrote:** > ** > > Wasn't the original intent for .net to be for creating web services?**** > > **** > > On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 3:47 AM, Katherine Moss <katherine.m...@gordon.edu> > wrote:**** > > Then why are the majority rather than the minority of windows 8 modern > apps (I hate that term when talking about computers and servers, belongs on > a mobile phone), nearly all written in pure HTML5 and JS? Where’s the C# > or VB in them? And touting HTML5 and JS more than the .net framework > sounds more like a kill-off rather than an enhancement. **** > > **** > > *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto: > ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *Arjang Assadi > *Sent:* Wednesday, April 10, 2013 6:12 AM**** > > > *To:* ozDotNet > *Subject:* Re: [OT] Surface RT or Surface Pro?**** > > **** > > Not taken over but augmented with, .net still reigns supreme, js and html > allow one to rich the poorest of places in terms of OS and framework. > Knowing knockout, backbone etc. is a must for any .net programmer.**** > > **** > > On 10 April 2013 19:15, Bec Carter <bec.usern...@gmail.com> wrote:**** > > .net taken over by html and js? Haha looks like the pendulum is swinging > back again....**** > > **** > > On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 4:57 AM, Katherine Moss <katherine.m...@gordon.edu> > wrote:**** > > I disagree, still. WPF was expanded for instance, from versions 4.0 to > 4.5 of the .net framework significantly from what I can tell from MSDN. > And besides, since Windows 8 modern apps are so limited in their feature > set compared to what we know currently today, I sort of consider Microsoft > a little crazy for thinking that everyone’s going to accept less than what > they have now. And that’s what scares me about the “Gemini” update for > Office coming in the future since in order to metro-ize Office completely, > according to sources of Mary Joe Fowley on All About Microsoft over at > ZDNet, she says that what people are telling her is that the update will be > a subset of the current feature set. And that’s what gets me; what about > enthusiasts who need more than just a Fisher Price version? What if we > want all of the cool features? What is Microsoft telling us to do, never > move on because they are interested in depleting stuff? **** > > And then in terms of .net being taken over by HTML and JavaScript? How > much more 1990’s can you get? Come on, jees. I’ll never accept a version > of Windows or it’s successors without .net installed and living in some > form. **** > > **** > > *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto: > ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *Scott Barnes > *Sent:* Monday, April 08, 2013 11:27 PM**** > > > *To:* ozDotNet > *Subject:* Re: [OT] Surface RT or Surface Pro?**** > > **** > > Its legacy simply because no investment will be put into it. Windows XP is > legacy even though I still see people inside a Fortune 500 company right > now using at as a desktop OS. **** > > **** > > Silverlight/WPF concepts and IP were consolidated and rehydrated into the > Windows 8 XAML "runtime" so in a way Legacy would also imply that the vNext > is the "new" and the older version are the old (just like Silverlight 2 is > legacy vs Silverlight 4). The problem is Microsoft didn't understand what > the notion of a "messaging framework" is in terms of Marketing and so they > left that part out creating this whole conversation right now around Legacy > true/false. > > Its also legacy because of the uncertainty in a lot of > enterprise/companies around the "AS-IS" futures they've in turn suspended > investment or looking to shift to a HTML5 deployment model or are open to > new ideas around next bets. That's not to say a new project isnt created > every 5secs in WPF/SL today... it's just not advertised and creates this > whole "is it alive or isnt it" question.**** > > > **** > > --- > Regards, > Scott Barnes > http://www.riagenic.com**** > > **** > > On Tue, Apr 9, 2013 at 2:55 AM, Katherine Moss <katherine.m...@gordon.edu> > wrote:**** > > I don’t know why people keep calling stuff like WPF and Win32/64 > applications “old and legacy”. I still see people using WPF all the time, > so obviously it’s still got some spirit in it. **** > > **** > > *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto: > ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *Arjang Assadi > *Sent:* Monday, April 08, 2013 2:14 AM**** > > > *To:* ozDotNet > *Subject:* Re: [OT] Surface RT or Surface Pro?**** > > **** > > RT totally rocks, since I got it haven't put it down, it is just pure > awesome.**** > > It is light, app switching and screen splitting are so easy.**** > > **** > > Since I got one I cant remember a day I didn't have it in my hand, most of > times without the cover.**** > > **** > > I would like a Pro for alternative set of reasons, but RT will still be > lighter.**** > > **** > > Regards**** > > **** > > Arjang**** > > **** > > **** > > **** > > On 2 April 2013 10:49, James Chapman-Smith <ja...@chapman-smith.com> > wrote:**** > > Hi Folks,**** > > **** > > I'm thinking about getting myself either a Surface RT or a Surface Pro (or > maybe some other alternative). Every time I think about it I convince > myself that one is better than the other but then the next time I flip.*** > * > > **** > > What are everyone's thoughts?**** > > **** > > Should I get a Surface RT or a Surface Pro? Should I get a surface at all? > How much memory should I get?**** > > **** > > I thank you for your well thought out ideas in advance.**** > > **** > > Cheers.**** > > **** > > James.**** > > **** > > **** > > **** > > **** > > **** > > **** > > **** > > ** ** > -- Meski http://courteous.ly/aAOZcv "Going to Starbucks for coffee is like going to prison for sex. Sure, you'll get it, but it's going to be rough" - Adam Hills
